Ziploc Bags vs Vacuum Sealer Bags

[Serendipity]

I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
I was really saving money. So, I finally sat down and did the math. A
box of 15 3.7L Ziploc freezer bags yields a total length of 4.2 m at a
cost of $2.99. The vacuum sealer roll refill give 3 rolls at 10 m for a
total of 30 m or the equilavent of 7.14 boxes of Ziploc bags which would
cost $21.34. By using the vacuum sealer rolls, I saved $10.56 almost
enough to buy another replacement package of vacuum sealer rolls.
Obviously, the vacuum sealer rolls are a better deal costwise.

Convenience:
Vacuum sealed rolls allow you to make the size bag you want. They
virtually eliminate freezer burn. The bags can be re-used although I
don't. They can be resealed which I do if necessary. The bags can be
used in the microwave or boiled. I've made individual ready meals in
them and just microwave, dump onto plate and there you go.

Ziploc bags are great for those things you want to use a little of such
as corn. I've had a problem with freezer burn using ziploc bags though.
This is annoying in vegetables but worse in meat! I'll still use them
just not near as much.

Tip:
If you have a vacuum sealer, it will get more use if you keep it where
you can see it. It's great for resealing other bags too to keep things
fresh.

[Chuck]

"Serendipity" > wrote in message
...
> I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
> I was really saving money. So, I finally sat down and did the math. A
> box of 15 3.7L Ziploc freezer bags yields a total length of 4.2 m at a
> cost of $2.99. The vacuum sealer roll refill give 3 rolls at 10 m for a
> total of 30 m or the equilavent of 7.14 boxes of Ziploc bags which would
> cost $21.34. By using the vacuum sealer rolls, I saved $10.56 almost
> enough to buy another replacement package of vacuum sealer rolls.
> Obviously, the vacuum sealer rolls are a better deal costwise.

<snip>

Where do you get the vacuum sealers (the complete unit)? Would Wal-Mart,
Sears, Sams type places carry them? About how much do they cost, do you know
off hand?

This might make a good Christmas present.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Chuck]

"Serendipity" > wrote in message
...
> I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
> I was really saving money. So, I finally sat down and did the math. A
> box of 15 3.7L Ziploc freezer bags yields a total length of 4.2 m at a
> cost of $2.99. The vacuum sealer roll refill give 3 rolls at 10 m for a
> total of 30 m or the equilavent of 7.14 boxes of Ziploc bags which would
> cost $21.34. By using the vacuum sealer rolls, I saved $10.56 almost
> enough to buy another replacement package of vacuum sealer rolls.
> Obviously, the vacuum sealer rolls are a better deal costwise.

<snip>

Where do you get the vacuum sealers (the complete unit)? Would Wal-Mart,
Sears, Sams type places carry them? About how much do they cost, do you know
off hand?

This might make a good Christmas present.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.795 / Virus Database: 539 - Release Date: 11/12/2004

[Serendipity]

Chuck wrote:

> "Serendipity" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>>I was really saving money. So, I finally sat down and did the math. A
>>box of 15 3.7L Ziploc freezer bags yields a total length of 4.2 m at a
>>cost of $2.99. The vacuum sealer roll refill give 3 rolls at 10 m for a
>>total of 30 m or the equilavent of 7.14 boxes of Ziploc bags which would
>>cost $21.34. By using the vacuum sealer rolls, I saved $10.56 almost
>>enough to buy another replacement package of vacuum sealer rolls.
>>Obviously, the vacuum sealer rolls are a better deal costwise.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Where do you get the vacuum sealers (the complete unit)? Would Wal-Mart,
> Sears, Sams type places carry them? About how much do they cost, do you know
> off hand?

I have an off brand (DCI) that was a replacement for my old Seal-a-Meal.
I decided against buying the high priced Tilia. IMO, the DCI does the
same job for a fraction of the price. Other brandnames are Salton and
Toastless. The price I quoted for the replacement rolls is for Salton
brand rolls. From my experience, the rolls are interchangeable from
brand to brand. The only thing I have found is I have some "boil
pouches" made for the Seal-a-Meal that don't like to take a vacuum but
they work well other than that including boing or microwaving the
package. I haven't seen these boild pouches in the stores but ordered
mine through Rival (item number 50068). IIRC, I paid somewhere around
$20 close to 5 years ago. At the time I bought it, I did not feel the
need to lay out $200+ for the Tilia. If I get similar longivity out of
the DCI as I did the Seal-a-Meal, I should't have to replace it for
another 15 or so years. Wal-mart here sells them as does Canadian Tire,
Zellers, and Home Hardware. I shop at Sam's but I haven't seen vacuum
sealers there. They may have them though as there are some isles I
don't go down if I don't need anything. I would think in the US stores
like Wal-Mart, K-mart, and Target. Sorry, I don't know too many US
stores. If you go for a model other than Tilia, you can expect to spend
around $20+ and most brands come with a roll or two to get you started.
I've seen some brands as high as $89 for what looks almost identical
to a Tilia. An alternative is to check eBay. One caution, the old
Seal-a-Meals seal but do not create a vacuum.
>
> This might make a good Christmas present.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.795 / Virus Database: 539 - Release Date: 11/12/2004
>
>

[Serendipity]

Chuck wrote:

> "Serendipity" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>>I was really saving money. So, I finally sat down and did the math. A
>>box of 15 3.7L Ziploc freezer bags yields a total length of 4.2 m at a
>>cost of $2.99. The vacuum sealer roll refill give 3 rolls at 10 m for a
>>total of 30 m or the equilavent of 7.14 boxes of Ziploc bags which would
>>cost $21.34. By using the vacuum sealer rolls, I saved $10.56 almost
>>enough to buy another replacement package of vacuum sealer rolls.
>>Obviously, the vacuum sealer rolls are a better deal costwise.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Where do you get the vacuum sealers (the complete unit)? Would Wal-Mart,
> Sears, Sams type places carry them? About how much do they cost, do you know
> off hand?

I have an off brand (DCI) that was a replacement for my old Seal-a-Meal.
I decided against buying the high priced Tilia. IMO, the DCI does the
same job for a fraction of the price. Other brandnames are Salton and
Toastless. The price I quoted for the replacement rolls is for Salton
brand rolls. From my experience, the rolls are interchangeable from
brand to brand. The only thing I have found is I have some "boil
pouches" made for the Seal-a-Meal that don't like to take a vacuum but
they work well other than that including boing or microwaving the
package. I haven't seen these boild pouches in the stores but ordered
mine through Rival (item number 50068). IIRC, I paid somewhere around
$20 close to 5 years ago. At the time I bought it, I did not feel the
need to lay out $200+ for the Tilia. If I get similar longivity out of
the DCI as I did the Seal-a-Meal, I should't have to replace it for
another 15 or so years. Wal-mart here sells them as does Canadian Tire,
Zellers, and Home Hardware. I shop at Sam's but I haven't seen vacuum
sealers there. They may have them though as there are some isles I
don't go down if I don't need anything. I would think in the US stores
like Wal-Mart, K-mart, and Target. Sorry, I don't know too many US
stores. If you go for a model other than Tilia, you can expect to spend
around $20+ and most brands come with a roll or two to get you started.
I've seen some brands as high as $89 for what looks almost identical
to a Tilia. An alternative is to check eBay. One caution, the old
Seal-a-Meals seal but do not create a vacuum.
>
> This might make a good Christmas present.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.795 / Virus Database: 539 - Release Date: 11/12/2004
>
>

[PaPaPeng]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
wrote:

>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>I was really saving money.


Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
what are keepers and what are *******.

I buy ziplock bags from the Dollar Store at 1/3 to 1/4 the price.
After grocery shopping I sort my meat into single meal sized portions
and bag them before putting them in the freezer. I further organize
my bagged meat by putting them into tupperware type plastic boxes,
also from the Dollar Store.. The boxes stack well and there's no
freezer burn because the sealed lid keeps in the moisture. I also
know exactly how much of each kind of meat I have left. The stacked
boxes stay organized whether the boxes are full or empty.

One more tip. Line the bottom of the freezer with a thin styrofoam
sheet. This prevents direct contact with the refrigerant coils which
causes freezer burn. Your freezer contents now freeze evenly from
the cold freezer air.

I used to line the freezer with foil and it often stuck to the metal
and the freezer content. When pulling meat (or a box) that had been
stuck frozen it pulled off the paint. I have seen people chipping
away at the freezer floor to free an item. That's a no no. The
styrofoam liner solved all those problems.

[PaPaPeng]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
wrote:

>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>I was really saving money.


Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
what are keepers and what are *******.

I buy ziplock bags from the Dollar Store at 1/3 to 1/4 the price.
After grocery shopping I sort my meat into single meal sized portions
and bag them before putting them in the freezer. I further organize
my bagged meat by putting them into tupperware type plastic boxes,
also from the Dollar Store.. The boxes stack well and there's no
freezer burn because the sealed lid keeps in the moisture. I also
know exactly how much of each kind of meat I have left. The stacked
boxes stay organized whether the boxes are full or empty.

One more tip. Line the bottom of the freezer with a thin styrofoam
sheet. This prevents direct contact with the refrigerant coils which
causes freezer burn. Your freezer contents now freeze evenly from
the cold freezer air.

I used to line the freezer with foil and it often stuck to the metal
and the freezer content. When pulling meat (or a box) that had been
stuck frozen it pulled off the paint. I have seen people chipping
away at the freezer floor to free an item. That's a no no. The
styrofoam liner solved all those problems.

[Serendipity]

PaPaPeng wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>>I was really saving money.
>
>
>
> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
> what are keepers and what are *******.
>

Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they
don't see them, hence they don't use them.

> I buy ziplock bags from the Dollar Store at 1/3 to 1/4 the price.
> After grocery shopping I sort my meat into single meal sized portions
> and bag them before putting them in the freezer. I further organize
> my bagged meat by putting them into tupperware type plastic boxes,
> also from the Dollar Store.. The boxes stack well and there's no
> freezer burn because the sealed lid keeps in the moisture. I also
> know exactly how much of each kind of meat I have left. The stacked
> boxes stay organized whether the boxes are full or empty.

I've had no luck with Dollar Store or bargin ziploc like bags. It is a
total tick off to fill a bag only to find it burst in the freezer. No
thanks! I've also had no luck with Dollar Store storage containers. I
bought 12 medium size, medium height rectangle style containers, and 6
medium size, tall height to store dry goods in due to a rodent problem.
I have pulled food items (sunflower seeds, trail mix, nacho chips) out
of these containers that obviously were stale. Those dang containers
did not seal enough air out. When I find food wastage, I get more than
a little ticked!
>
> One more tip. Line the bottom of the freezer with a thin styrofoam
> sheet. This prevents direct contact with the refrigerant coils which
> causes freezer burn. Your freezer contents now freeze evenly from
> the cold freezer air.

DH said this is a bad idea!

>
> I used to line the freezer with foil and it often stuck to the metal
> and the freezer content. When pulling meat (or a box) that had been
> stuck frozen it pulled off the paint. I have seen people chipping
> away at the freezer floor to free an item. That's a no no. The
> styrofoam liner solved all those problems.

I have had freezers my entire married life. I now have a 7 c ft, 18 c
ft, and the side by side freezer. I have never had a problem with
anything sticking to the bottome of the freezer! If you have things
sticking to the bottom or sides, I would think you have a real problem.
I'd get the freezer checked.

[Serendipity]

PaPaPeng wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>>I was really saving money.
>
>
>
> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
> what are keepers and what are *******.
>

Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they
don't see them, hence they don't use them.

> I buy ziplock bags from the Dollar Store at 1/3 to 1/4 the price.
> After grocery shopping I sort my meat into single meal sized portions
> and bag them before putting them in the freezer. I further organize
> my bagged meat by putting them into tupperware type plastic boxes,
> also from the Dollar Store.. The boxes stack well and there's no
> freezer burn because the sealed lid keeps in the moisture. I also
> know exactly how much of each kind of meat I have left. The stacked
> boxes stay organized whether the boxes are full or empty.

I've had no luck with Dollar Store or bargin ziploc like bags. It is a
total tick off to fill a bag only to find it burst in the freezer. No
thanks! I've also had no luck with Dollar Store storage containers. I
bought 12 medium size, medium height rectangle style containers, and 6
medium size, tall height to store dry goods in due to a rodent problem.
I have pulled food items (sunflower seeds, trail mix, nacho chips) out
of these containers that obviously were stale. Those dang containers
did not seal enough air out. When I find food wastage, I get more than
a little ticked!
>
> One more tip. Line the bottom of the freezer with a thin styrofoam
> sheet. This prevents direct contact with the refrigerant coils which
> causes freezer burn. Your freezer contents now freeze evenly from
> the cold freezer air.

DH said this is a bad idea!

>
> I used to line the freezer with foil and it often stuck to the metal
> and the freezer content. When pulling meat (or a box) that had been
> stuck frozen it pulled off the paint. I have seen people chipping
> away at the freezer floor to free an item. That's a no no. The
> styrofoam liner solved all those problems.

I have had freezers my entire married life. I now have a 7 c ft, 18 c
ft, and the side by side freezer. I have never had a problem with
anything sticking to the bottome of the freezer! If you have things
sticking to the bottom or sides, I would think you have a real problem.
I'd get the freezer checked.

[Serendipity]

Derald wrote:

> Serendipity > wrote:
>
>
>>I've had a problem with freezer burn using ziploc bags though.
>> This is annoying in vegetables but worse in meat! I'll still use them
>>just not near as much.
>
> You probably know that "freezer burn" is caused by the passage of
> air (or other gas) through your storage container, a process called
> "diffusion". By actual test (according to Consumer Reports), the only
> only only commercially-available "zipper" bag that is impervious to such
> diffusion is genuine "Ziploc"-branded -freezer- bags. "Glad" freezer
> bags, "regular" zip-lock storage and sandwich bags and store brands just
> don not do the job. Save your money.

Yes, I am well aware of diffusion. Ziplocs are more expensive than the
vacuum sealer rolls and so far, I have not had a problem with freezer
burn using vacuum sealer rolls.

> In my own personal tests of such (AWA of the devices that use
> them), although a chief advantage of the unroll-your-own bags is that
> they may be re-used, the main weakness was a disturbingly high
> percentage of leaking _factory_ seams --- you know, those along the
> perforated selvage. For the most part, the leaks were small enough to go
> undetected until after some weeks -- in some cases, months -- of
> storage; bummer. They may go totally undetected in a freezer. Brand name
> made no difference: The high-dollar "Foodsaver" are no more reliable
> than the clearance "Rival". In fact, if you want the damn' things (and
> want to deal with the Duty Pohleece), send me a mailing addy; I'll
> probably be able to dig up a few rolls around here.

No dealing with duty police here :) We have addies both sides of the
border, a true godsend for dealing with ebay buying and selling.

> Also, I might point out that the only only only countertop home-use
> vacuum-storage appliance worth having is the overpriced "Tilia
> Foodsaver" and I can exceed the quality of its vacuum with a
> Italian-made bicycle pump. If you have any experience with Italian
> machinery (mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles), then you
> know that the home vacuum-storage appliances must be a pretty sorry lot.
> They are. Did you know that some of them actually have blank,
> dead-weight pieces of metal incorporated into their cases? I guess that,
> along with making the (for-the-most-part) all-plastic junkers feel more
> substantial, the mass must help prevent them from bouncing all over the
> countertop when in use.
> DW&I vacuum pack a variety of dehydrated and fresh foods in
> tab-sealed glass containers ranging in size from baby food jars to
> half-gallon Ball "Mason" jars. If your appliance has a hose and
> "cannister" adapter (although the Tilia is a geek size that fits only
> Tilia cannisters), you can, too. Big jars may be processed using a
> "cannister" adapter while (several) little jars may be placed inside a
> larger vessel which acts as a hypobaric retort; coffee cans, pressure
> cookers and pressure canners work well for the purpose. In fact, if you
> use a pressure cooker, the hose may be attached directly to the little
> pipe in its lid, no adapter needed.

At the moment, I'm not really interested in vacuum sealing in jars even
though I am hot and heavy into home preserving. There are a few of
reasons for this. I already have all the equipment for homepreserving I
need. Dried goods are either vacuum sealed in bags for longer term
storage or in old fashioned mason jars for use now. The Tilia, while
appealing, is overpriced for my needs. I do use a pressure cooker on a
regular basis though. I likely average 2 - 3 times a week. Today, I
made a delectable vegetable beef soup in under and hour start to finish
:) Pressure cookers rule!

[Serendipity]

Derald wrote:

> Serendipity > wrote:
>
>
>>I've had a problem with freezer burn using ziploc bags though.
>> This is annoying in vegetables but worse in meat! I'll still use them
>>just not near as much.
>
> You probably know that "freezer burn" is caused by the passage of
> air (or other gas) through your storage container, a process called
> "diffusion". By actual test (according to Consumer Reports), the only
> only only commercially-available "zipper" bag that is impervious to such
> diffusion is genuine "Ziploc"-branded -freezer- bags. "Glad" freezer
> bags, "regular" zip-lock storage and sandwich bags and store brands just
> don not do the job. Save your money.

Yes, I am well aware of diffusion. Ziplocs are more expensive than the
vacuum sealer rolls and so far, I have not had a problem with freezer
burn using vacuum sealer rolls.

> In my own personal tests of such (AWA of the devices that use
> them), although a chief advantage of the unroll-your-own bags is that
> they may be re-used, the main weakness was a disturbingly high
> percentage of leaking _factory_ seams --- you know, those along the
> perforated selvage. For the most part, the leaks were small enough to go
> undetected until after some weeks -- in some cases, months -- of
> storage; bummer. They may go totally undetected in a freezer. Brand name
> made no difference: The high-dollar "Foodsaver" are no more reliable
> than the clearance "Rival". In fact, if you want the damn' things (and
> want to deal with the Duty Pohleece), send me a mailing addy; I'll
> probably be able to dig up a few rolls around here.

No dealing with duty police here :) We have addies both sides of the
border, a true godsend for dealing with ebay buying and selling.

> Also, I might point out that the only only only countertop home-use
> vacuum-storage appliance worth having is the overpriced "Tilia
> Foodsaver" and I can exceed the quality of its vacuum with a
> Italian-made bicycle pump. If you have any experience with Italian
> machinery (mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles), then you
> know that the home vacuum-storage appliances must be a pretty sorry lot.
> They are. Did you know that some of them actually have blank,
> dead-weight pieces of metal incorporated into their cases? I guess that,
> along with making the (for-the-most-part) all-plastic junkers feel more
> substantial, the mass must help prevent them from bouncing all over the
> countertop when in use.
> DW&I vacuum pack a variety of dehydrated and fresh foods in
> tab-sealed glass containers ranging in size from baby food jars to
> half-gallon Ball "Mason" jars. If your appliance has a hose and
> "cannister" adapter (although the Tilia is a geek size that fits only
> Tilia cannisters), you can, too. Big jars may be processed using a
> "cannister" adapter while (several) little jars may be placed inside a
> larger vessel which acts as a hypobaric retort; coffee cans, pressure
> cookers and pressure canners work well for the purpose. In fact, if you
> use a pressure cooker, the hose may be attached directly to the little
> pipe in its lid, no adapter needed.

At the moment, I'm not really interested in vacuum sealing in jars even
though I am hot and heavy into home preserving. There are a few of
reasons for this. I already have all the equipment for homepreserving I
need. Dried goods are either vacuum sealed in bags for longer term
storage or in old fashioned mason jars for use now. The Tilia, while
appealing, is overpriced for my needs. I do use a pressure cooker on a
regular basis though. I likely average 2 - 3 times a week. Today, I
made a delectable vegetable beef soup in under and hour start to finish
:) Pressure cookers rule!

[Joe A.]

>(mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles),


Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
because you need that many to keep one running. :)


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

Needed - Paper shredder and fax machine. Working condition. You box, I
eMail UPS label.

[Joe A.]

>(mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles),


Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
because you need that many to keep one running. :)


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

Needed - Paper shredder and fax machine. Working condition. You box, I
eMail UPS label.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Serendipity > wrote

>> I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls.
>> At $10.78, I wondered if I was really saving money.

> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys
> used appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too.
> They always have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their
> shelves. Waffle makers and slow cookers too. That's as good
> a vote as you can get of what are keepers and what are *******.

> I buy ziplock bags from the Dollar Store at 1/3 to 1/4 the price.
> After grocery shopping I sort my meat into single meal sized portions
> and bag them before putting them in the freezer. I further organize
> my bagged meat by putting them into tupperware type plastic boxes,
> also from the Dollar Store.. The boxes stack well and there's no
> freezer burn because the sealed lid keeps in the moisture.

Thats not what freezer burn is about. It happens even in
airtight containers and is the surface moisture subliming out
of the surface to the cooler inner surface of the container.

You can prove that any time by putting say a steak in
a tupperware box by itself and leaving it there for months.
You will get freezer burn on the upper surface of the
steak and if you leave it there long enough, a decent
level of ice crystals on the inner surface of the lid.

Thats the whole point of vacuum sealing, it gets the plastic film right
on the meat surface so the moisture cant sublime off the surface.

> I also know exactly how much of each kind of meat I have left. The
> stacked boxes stay organized whether the boxes are full or empty.

> One more tip. Line the bottom of the freezer with a
> thin styrofoam sheet. This prevents direct contact
> with the refrigerant coils which causes freezer burn.

Wrong again. ALL you need is a temperature differential to get freezer burn.

> Your freezer contents now freeze evenly from the cold freezer air.

Wrong again. The surface thats not in contact with the styrofoam
will always be colder than the surface in contact with the styrofoam
except when the door has been opened etc.

> I used to line the freezer with foil and it often stuck to the metal
> and the freezer content. When pulling meat (or a box) that had
> been stuck frozen it pulled off the paint. I have seen people
> chipping away at the freezer floor to free an item. That's a no no.
> The styrofoam liner solved all those problems.

Sure, but it wont eliminate freezer burn.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Serendipity > wrote

>> I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls.
>> At $10.78, I wondered if I was really saving money.

> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys
> used appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too.
> They always have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their
> shelves. Waffle makers and slow cookers too. That's as good
> a vote as you can get of what are keepers and what are *******.

> I buy ziplock bags from the Dollar Store at 1/3 to 1/4 the price.
> After grocery shopping I sort my meat into single meal sized portions
> and bag them before putting them in the freezer. I further organize
> my bagged meat by putting them into tupperware type plastic boxes,
> also from the Dollar Store.. The boxes stack well and there's no
> freezer burn because the sealed lid keeps in the moisture.

Thats not what freezer burn is about. It happens even in
airtight containers and is the surface moisture subliming out
of the surface to the cooler inner surface of the container.

You can prove that any time by putting say a steak in
a tupperware box by itself and leaving it there for months.
You will get freezer burn on the upper surface of the
steak and if you leave it there long enough, a decent
level of ice crystals on the inner surface of the lid.

Thats the whole point of vacuum sealing, it gets the plastic film right
on the meat surface so the moisture cant sublime off the surface.

> I also know exactly how much of each kind of meat I have left. The
> stacked boxes stay organized whether the boxes are full or empty.

> One more tip. Line the bottom of the freezer with a
> thin styrofoam sheet. This prevents direct contact
> with the refrigerant coils which causes freezer burn.

Wrong again. ALL you need is a temperature differential to get freezer burn.

> Your freezer contents now freeze evenly from the cold freezer air.

Wrong again. The surface thats not in contact with the styrofoam
will always be colder than the surface in contact with the styrofoam
except when the door has been opened etc.

> I used to line the freezer with foil and it often stuck to the metal
> and the freezer content. When pulling meat (or a box) that had
> been stuck frozen it pulled off the paint. I have seen people
> chipping away at the freezer floor to free an item. That's a no no.
> The styrofoam liner solved all those problems.

Sure, but it wont eliminate freezer burn.

[Michael Black]

Serendipity ) writes:
> PaPaPeng wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>>>I was really saving money.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
>> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
>> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
>> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
>> what are keepers and what are *******.
>>
>
> Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they
> don't see them, hence they don't use them.
>
It has nothing to do with not seeing them. It would most definitely have
to do with whether something is being used. If someone has to go to a lot of
effort to use something, it's likely to not get used. And people have to
decide what is important, ie what they leave on the counter, since
counter space is limited.

If you eat a lot of waffles, then obviously you keep the waffle iron handy.
But if it's only something you use occasionally, then it gets left in the
cupboard, and then it starts becoming less convenient. "Oh, I have to climb
on the chair to get out the waffle iron, I'll have something else", which
means the waffle iron gets used even less. Move the waffle iron, and you bump
something that is being used more often.

This is the problem with all those single use items. Look in the flyers and
they are loaded with single use items, rice cookers, waffle irons,
sandwich cookers, slow cookers, a whole continuum of blenders, I even saw
a muffin maker today. Everyone of them is another purchase, everyone
of them is more space used up in the kitchen. Each in itself is
terribly valuable, but to the person who can make use of that value.
For everyone else, their value is dubious. We have moved away from bying
a few simple things, that each do a lot and do it fairly well, to a
multiplicity of items that do one thing very well but have no use the
rest of the time. People buy them, and then realize they don't warrant
the space, and then have less value. People are given them, and have
no interest in them, or no need for them.

Much of it is about selling things to people to make profit, and buying
something for those reasons is never frugal.

Michael

[Michael Black]

Serendipity ) writes:
> PaPaPeng wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>>>I was really saving money.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
>> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
>> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
>> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
>> what are keepers and what are *******.
>>
>
> Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they
> don't see them, hence they don't use them.
>
It has nothing to do with not seeing them. It would most definitely have
to do with whether something is being used. If someone has to go to a lot of
effort to use something, it's likely to not get used. And people have to
decide what is important, ie what they leave on the counter, since
counter space is limited.

If you eat a lot of waffles, then obviously you keep the waffle iron handy.
But if it's only something you use occasionally, then it gets left in the
cupboard, and then it starts becoming less convenient. "Oh, I have to climb
on the chair to get out the waffle iron, I'll have something else", which
means the waffle iron gets used even less. Move the waffle iron, and you bump
something that is being used more often.

This is the problem with all those single use items. Look in the flyers and
they are loaded with single use items, rice cookers, waffle irons,
sandwich cookers, slow cookers, a whole continuum of blenders, I even saw
a muffin maker today. Everyone of them is another purchase, everyone
of them is more space used up in the kitchen. Each in itself is
terribly valuable, but to the person who can make use of that value.
For everyone else, their value is dubious. We have moved away from bying
a few simple things, that each do a lot and do it fairly well, to a
multiplicity of items that do one thing very well but have no use the
rest of the time. People buy them, and then realize they don't warrant
the space, and then have less value. People are given them, and have
no interest in them, or no need for them.

Much of it is about selling things to people to make profit, and buying
something for those reasons is never frugal.

Michael

[Rod Speed]

"Serendipity" > wrote in message
...
> PaPaPeng wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if I was
>>>really saving money.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
>> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
>> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
>> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
>> what are keepers and what are *******.
>>
>
> Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they don't
> see them, hence they don't use them.
>
>> I buy ziplock bags from the Dollar Store at 1/3 to 1/4 the price.
>> After grocery shopping I sort my meat into single meal sized portions
>> and bag them before putting them in the freezer. I further organize
>> my bagged meat by putting them into tupperware type plastic boxes,
>> also from the Dollar Store.. The boxes stack well and there's no
>> freezer burn because the sealed lid keeps in the moisture. I also
>> know exactly how much of each kind of meat I have left. The stacked
>> boxes stay organized whether the boxes are full or empty.
>
> I've had no luck with Dollar Store or bargin ziploc like bags. It is a total
> tick off to fill a bag only to find it burst in the freezer. No thanks! I've
> also had no luck with Dollar Store storage containers. I bought 12 medium
> size, medium height rectangle style containers, and 6 medium size, tall height
> to store dry goods in due to a rodent problem. I have pulled food items
> (sunflower seeds, trail mix, nacho chips) out of these containers that
> obviously were stale. Those dang containers did not seal enough air out.
> When I find food wastage, I get more than a little ticked!
>>
>> One more tip. Line the bottom of the freezer with a thin styrofoam
>> sheet. This prevents direct contact with the refrigerant coils which
>> causes freezer burn. Your freezer contents now freeze evenly from
>> the cold freezer air.
>
> DH said this is a bad idea!
>
>>
>> I used to line the freezer with foil and it often stuck to the metal
>> and the freezer content. When pulling meat (or a box) that had been
>> stuck frozen it pulled off the paint. I have seen people chipping
>> away at the freezer floor to free an item. That's a no no. The
>> styrofoam liner solved all those problems.
>
> I have had freezers my entire married life. I now have a 7 c ft, 18 c ft, and
> the side by side freezer. I have never had a problem with anything sticking
> to the bottome of the freezer! If you have things sticking to the bottom or
> sides, I would think you have a real problem. I'd get the freezer checked.

Its a problem that varys with the detail of the design of the freezer.

Its worst with freezers that have sheet metal cold surfaces and a particular
problem with alfoil used by itself, not wrapped around say meat.

Quite a few modern freezers basically have shelves which
have the refrigerant tubes visible in the metal wire shelf
structure. Those dont stick to whats put on them much at all.

[Rod Speed]

"Serendipity" > wrote in message
...
> PaPaPeng wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if I was
>>>really saving money.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
>> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
>> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
>> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
>> what are keepers and what are *******.
>>
>
> Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they don't
> see them, hence they don't use them.
>
>> I buy ziplock bags from the Dollar Store at 1/3 to 1/4 the price.
>> After grocery shopping I sort my meat into single meal sized portions
>> and bag them before putting them in the freezer. I further organize
>> my bagged meat by putting them into tupperware type plastic boxes,
>> also from the Dollar Store.. The boxes stack well and there's no
>> freezer burn because the sealed lid keeps in the moisture. I also
>> know exactly how much of each kind of meat I have left. The stacked
>> boxes stay organized whether the boxes are full or empty.
>
> I've had no luck with Dollar Store or bargin ziploc like bags. It is a total
> tick off to fill a bag only to find it burst in the freezer. No thanks! I've
> also had no luck with Dollar Store storage containers. I bought 12 medium
> size, medium height rectangle style containers, and 6 medium size, tall height
> to store dry goods in due to a rodent problem. I have pulled food items
> (sunflower seeds, trail mix, nacho chips) out of these containers that
> obviously were stale. Those dang containers did not seal enough air out.
> When I find food wastage, I get more than a little ticked!
>>
>> One more tip. Line the bottom of the freezer with a thin styrofoam
>> sheet. This prevents direct contact with the refrigerant coils which
>> causes freezer burn. Your freezer contents now freeze evenly from
>> the cold freezer air.
>
> DH said this is a bad idea!
>
>>
>> I used to line the freezer with foil and it often stuck to the metal
>> and the freezer content. When pulling meat (or a box) that had been
>> stuck frozen it pulled off the paint. I have seen people chipping
>> away at the freezer floor to free an item. That's a no no. The
>> styrofoam liner solved all those problems.
>
> I have had freezers my entire married life. I now have a 7 c ft, 18 c ft, and
> the side by side freezer. I have never had a problem with anything sticking
> to the bottome of the freezer! If you have things sticking to the bottom or
> sides, I would think you have a real problem. I'd get the freezer checked.

Its a problem that varys with the detail of the design of the freezer.

Its worst with freezers that have sheet metal cold surfaces and a particular
problem with alfoil used by itself, not wrapped around say meat.

Quite a few modern freezers basically have shelves which
have the refrigerant tubes visible in the metal wire shelf
structure. Those dont stick to whats put on them much at all.

[Rod Speed]

Derald > wrote in message
...
> Serendipity > wrote:

>> I've had a problem with freezer burn using ziploc bags
>> though. This is annoying in vegetables but worse in
>> meat! I'll still use them just not near as much.

> You probably know that "freezer burn" is caused
> by the passage of air (or other gas) through your
> storage container, a process called "diffusion".

Thats only part of what freezer burn is about.

You also get it if you say have a steak in the bottom of
a tupperware box with nothing on the top steak surface.

If you leave it in the freezer long enough, you'll get bad
freezer burn on the upper surface, and a very decent
layer of ice crystals on the inner lid surface.

The whole point of vacuum sealing bags is to ensure
that the plastic is in contact with the steak surface in
this case, so you dont get sublimation of moisture
from the meat surface to the inner surface of the
container like you do with say a tupperware box.

> By actual test (according to Consumer Reports), the only only
> only commercially-available "zipper" bag that is impervious to
> such diffusion is genuine "Ziploc"-branded -freezer- bags.
> "Glad" freezer bags, "regular" zip-lock storage and sandwich
> bags and store brands just don not do the job. Save your money.

That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.

Dont need a vacuum thing for the bags in that case because
its trivial to press the bag surface against the 'wet' meat
surface to get the air out before putting it in the freezer.
I dont even bother to use a wire tie on the bag, just fold
the end over and have it under the meat when it freezes.

> In my own personal tests of such (AWA of the devices that use
> them), although a chief advantage of the unroll-your-own bags is that
> they may be re-used, the main weakness was a disturbingly high
> percentage of leaking _factory_ seams --- you know, those along the
> perforated selvage. For the most part, the leaks were small enough
> to go undetected until after some weeks -- in some cases, months --
> of storage; bummer. They may go totally undetected in a freezer.
> Brand name made no difference: The high-dollar "Foodsaver" are no
> more reliable than the clearance "Rival". In fact, if you want the damn'
> things (and want to deal with the Duty Pohleece), send me a mailing
> addy; I'll probably be able to dig up a few rolls around here.

> Also, I might point out that the only only only countertop home-use
> vacuum-storage appliance worth having is the overpriced "Tilia
> Foodsaver" and I can exceed the quality of its vacuum with a
> Italian-made bicycle pump. If you have any experience with Italian
> machinery (mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles),
> then you know that the home vacuum-storage appliances must
> be a pretty sorry lot. They are. Did you know that some of them
> actually have blank, dead-weight pieces of metal incorporated into
> their cases? I guess that, along with making the (for-the-most-part)
> all-plastic junkers feel more substantial, the mass must help prevent
> them from bouncing all over the countertop when in use.

> DW&I vacuum pack a variety of dehydrated and fresh foods in
> tab-sealed glass containers ranging in size from baby food jars to
> half-gallon Ball "Mason" jars. If your appliance has a hose and
> "cannister" adapter (although the Tilia is a geek size that fits only
> Tilia cannisters), you can, too. Big jars may be processed using a
> "cannister" adapter while (several) little jars may be placed inside a
> larger vessel which acts as a hypobaric retort; coffee cans, pressure
> cookers and pressure canners work well for the purpose. In fact, if you
> use a pressure cooker, the hose may be attached directly to the little
> pipe in its lid, no adapter needed.

[Rod Speed]

Derald > wrote in message
...
> Serendipity > wrote:

>> I've had a problem with freezer burn using ziploc bags
>> though. This is annoying in vegetables but worse in
>> meat! I'll still use them just not near as much.

> You probably know that "freezer burn" is caused
> by the passage of air (or other gas) through your
> storage container, a process called "diffusion".

Thats only part of what freezer burn is about.

You also get it if you say have a steak in the bottom of
a tupperware box with nothing on the top steak surface.

If you leave it in the freezer long enough, you'll get bad
freezer burn on the upper surface, and a very decent
layer of ice crystals on the inner lid surface.

The whole point of vacuum sealing bags is to ensure
that the plastic is in contact with the steak surface in
this case, so you dont get sublimation of moisture
from the meat surface to the inner surface of the
container like you do with say a tupperware box.

> By actual test (according to Consumer Reports), the only only
> only commercially-available "zipper" bag that is impervious to
> such diffusion is genuine "Ziploc"-branded -freezer- bags.
> "Glad" freezer bags, "regular" zip-lock storage and sandwich
> bags and store brands just don not do the job. Save your money.

That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.

Dont need a vacuum thing for the bags in that case because
its trivial to press the bag surface against the 'wet' meat
surface to get the air out before putting it in the freezer.
I dont even bother to use a wire tie on the bag, just fold
the end over and have it under the meat when it freezes.

> In my own personal tests of such (AWA of the devices that use
> them), although a chief advantage of the unroll-your-own bags is that
> they may be re-used, the main weakness was a disturbingly high
> percentage of leaking _factory_ seams --- you know, those along the
> perforated selvage. For the most part, the leaks were small enough
> to go undetected until after some weeks -- in some cases, months --
> of storage; bummer. They may go totally undetected in a freezer.
> Brand name made no difference: The high-dollar "Foodsaver" are no
> more reliable than the clearance "Rival". In fact, if you want the damn'
> things (and want to deal with the Duty Pohleece), send me a mailing
> addy; I'll probably be able to dig up a few rolls around here.

> Also, I might point out that the only only only countertop home-use
> vacuum-storage appliance worth having is the overpriced "Tilia
> Foodsaver" and I can exceed the quality of its vacuum with a
> Italian-made bicycle pump. If you have any experience with Italian
> machinery (mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles),
> then you know that the home vacuum-storage appliances must
> be a pretty sorry lot. They are. Did you know that some of them
> actually have blank, dead-weight pieces of metal incorporated into
> their cases? I guess that, along with making the (for-the-most-part)
> all-plastic junkers feel more substantial, the mass must help prevent
> them from bouncing all over the countertop when in use.

> DW&I vacuum pack a variety of dehydrated and fresh foods in
> tab-sealed glass containers ranging in size from baby food jars to
> half-gallon Ball "Mason" jars. If your appliance has a hose and
> "cannister" adapter (although the Tilia is a geek size that fits only
> Tilia cannisters), you can, too. Big jars may be processed using a
> "cannister" adapter while (several) little jars may be placed inside a
> larger vessel which acts as a hypobaric retort; coffee cans, pressure
> cookers and pressure canners work well for the purpose. In fact, if you
> use a pressure cooker, the hose may be attached directly to the little
> pipe in its lid, no adapter needed.

[DrLith]

"Derald" > wrote in message
...
> the only only only countertop home-use
> vacuum-storage appliance worth having is the overpriced "Tilia
> Foodsaver" and I can exceed the quality of its vacuum with a
> Italian-made bicycle pump. If you have any experience with Italian
> machinery (mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles), then you
> know that the home vacuum-storage appliances must be a pretty sorry lot.

You may be right about the quality of your vacuum device, but your
experience with Italian automobiles may have lead you astray concerning the
quality of your bicycle pump. Italian bicycles and components are the gold
standard in the world of road racing.

[DrLith]

"Derald" > wrote in message
...
> the only only only countertop home-use
> vacuum-storage appliance worth having is the overpriced "Tilia
> Foodsaver" and I can exceed the quality of its vacuum with a
> Italian-made bicycle pump. If you have any experience with Italian
> machinery (mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles), then you
> know that the home vacuum-storage appliances must be a pretty sorry lot.

You may be right about the quality of your vacuum device, but your
experience with Italian automobiles may have lead you astray concerning the
quality of your bicycle pump. Italian bicycles and components are the gold
standard in the world of road racing.

[Serendipity]

Michael Black wrote:

> Serendipity ) writes:
>
>>PaPaPeng wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>>>>I was really saving money.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
>>>appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
>>>have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
>>>makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
>>>what are keepers and what are *******.
>>>
>>
>>Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they
>>don't see them, hence they don't use them.
>>
>
> It has nothing to do with not seeing them. It would most definitely have
> to do with whether something is being used. If someone has to go to a lot of
> effort to use something, it's likely to not get used. And people have to
> decide what is important, ie what they leave on the counter, since
> counter space is limited.

No one said a vacuum sealer had to be left on the counter. Mine isn't
yet is in plain sight. The same can be said of other small appliances.
>
> If you eat a lot of waffles, then obviously you keep the waffle iron handy.
> But if it's only something you use occasionally, then it gets left in the
> cupboard, and then it starts becoming less convenient. "Oh, I have to climb
> on the chair to get out the waffle iron, I'll have something else", which
> means the waffle iron gets used even less. Move the waffle iron, and you bump
> something that is being used more often.
>
> This is the problem with all those single use items. Look in the flyers and
> they are loaded with single use items, rice cookers, waffle irons,
> sandwich cookers, slow cookers, a whole continuum of blenders, I even saw
> a muffin maker today. Everyone of them is another purchase, everyone
> of them is more space used up in the kitchen. Each in itself is
> terribly valuable, but to the person who can make use of that value.
> For everyone else, their value is dubious. We have moved away from bying
> a few simple things, that each do a lot and do it fairly well, to a
> multiplicity of items that do one thing very well but have no use the
> rest of the time. People buy them, and then realize they don't warrant
> the space, and then have less value. People are given them, and have
> no interest in them, or no need for them.

I have a rice cooker, sandwich cooker, slow cooker, blender, and a few
other small appliances as in yogurt maker, breadmaker, ice cream maker,
dehydrator, toaster, food processor, stick blender, spice grinder, and
likely a couple I've forgotten to mention. None of them are single use
if you know how to use them properly. Wait, maybe the yogurt maker is
single use but it makes a dang fine yogurt without fuss or worry.
>
> Much of it is about selling things to people to make profit, and buying
> something for those reasons is never frugal.

I agree, but we seldom buy small appliances for the sole purpose of
someone making a profit.
>
> Michael
>

[Serendipity]

Michael Black wrote:

> Serendipity ) writes:
>
>>PaPaPeng wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
>>>>I was really saving money.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
>>>appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
>>>have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
>>>makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
>>>what are keepers and what are *******.
>>>
>>
>>Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they
>>don't see them, hence they don't use them.
>>
>
> It has nothing to do with not seeing them. It would most definitely have
> to do with whether something is being used. If someone has to go to a lot of
> effort to use something, it's likely to not get used. And people have to
> decide what is important, ie what they leave on the counter, since
> counter space is limited.

No one said a vacuum sealer had to be left on the counter. Mine isn't
yet is in plain sight. The same can be said of other small appliances.
>
> If you eat a lot of waffles, then obviously you keep the waffle iron handy.
> But if it's only something you use occasionally, then it gets left in the
> cupboard, and then it starts becoming less convenient. "Oh, I have to climb
> on the chair to get out the waffle iron, I'll have something else", which
> means the waffle iron gets used even less. Move the waffle iron, and you bump
> something that is being used more often.
>
> This is the problem with all those single use items. Look in the flyers and
> they are loaded with single use items, rice cookers, waffle irons,
> sandwich cookers, slow cookers, a whole continuum of blenders, I even saw
> a muffin maker today. Everyone of them is another purchase, everyone
> of them is more space used up in the kitchen. Each in itself is
> terribly valuable, but to the person who can make use of that value.
> For everyone else, their value is dubious. We have moved away from bying
> a few simple things, that each do a lot and do it fairly well, to a
> multiplicity of items that do one thing very well but have no use the
> rest of the time. People buy them, and then realize they don't warrant
> the space, and then have less value. People are given them, and have
> no interest in them, or no need for them.

I have a rice cooker, sandwich cooker, slow cooker, blender, and a few
other small appliances as in yogurt maker, breadmaker, ice cream maker,
dehydrator, toaster, food processor, stick blender, spice grinder, and
likely a couple I've forgotten to mention. None of them are single use
if you know how to use them properly. Wait, maybe the yogurt maker is
single use but it makes a dang fine yogurt without fuss or worry.
>
> Much of it is about selling things to people to make profit, and buying
> something for those reasons is never frugal.

I agree, but we seldom buy small appliances for the sole purpose of
someone making a profit.
>
> Michael
>

[DrLith]

"PaPaPeng" > wrote in message
...
> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
> what are keepers and what are *******.

I'm not sure that's a good measure of "useful appliance" vs. "waste of money
that will eventual gather dust or be given away to Goodwill." Most Americans
routinely eat, as my dad says, from the four food groups--eat out, take out,
frozen, and canned--and thus probably don't get a lot of use frm such
appliances. If you cook every day from scratch, however, your experiences
may be different.

P.S.--I also always see a lot of automatic drip coffee makers at the
Goodwill. Does that mean they're *******?

[DrLith]

"PaPaPeng" > wrote in message
...
> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
> what are keepers and what are *******.

I'm not sure that's a good measure of "useful appliance" vs. "waste of money
that will eventual gather dust or be given away to Goodwill." Most Americans
routinely eat, as my dad says, from the four food groups--eat out, take out,
frozen, and canned--and thus probably don't get a lot of use frm such
appliances. If you cook every day from scratch, however, your experiences
may be different.

P.S.--I also always see a lot of automatic drip coffee makers at the
Goodwill. Does that mean they're *******?

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Derald wrote:
>
> Serendipity > wrote:
>
> > I've had a problem with freezer burn using ziploc bags though.
> > This is annoying in vegetables but worse in meat! I'll still use them
> >just not near as much.
> You probably know that "freezer burn" is caused by the passage of
> air (or other gas) through your storage container, a process called
> "diffusion". By actual test (according to Consumer Reports), the only
> only only commercially-available "zipper" bag that is impervious to such
> diffusion is genuine "Ziploc"-branded -freezer- bags. "Glad" freezer
> bags, "regular" zip-lock storage and sandwich bags and store brands just
> don not do the job. Save your money.
>
OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar bags that
they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen food in
those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to pre-frezze.
Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.


--
So I was feeding the hummingbirds but not changing the feeder sugar
water quickly enough and it fermented into something like that stuff
that Hunter S Thompson was drinking in the Rum Diary, anyway, so I had
these drunk birds flying everywhere just like mosquitoes in Minnesota,
dashing up one side of me, darting down the other, crashing into the
windows, falling off their perches, didn't even know they perched,
flying backwards, flying backwards, it was like something out of the
Exorcist. After a while though, I got bored with it all. Next Summer I'm
going to Alaska to feed french bread soaked in Wild Turkey to polar
bears. Wish me luck!

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Derald wrote:
>
> Serendipity > wrote:
>
> > I've had a problem with freezer burn using ziploc bags though.
> > This is annoying in vegetables but worse in meat! I'll still use them
> >just not near as much.
> You probably know that "freezer burn" is caused by the passage of
> air (or other gas) through your storage container, a process called
> "diffusion". By actual test (according to Consumer Reports), the only
> only only commercially-available "zipper" bag that is impervious to such
> diffusion is genuine "Ziploc"-branded -freezer- bags. "Glad" freezer
> bags, "regular" zip-lock storage and sandwich bags and store brands just
> don not do the job. Save your money.
>
OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar bags that
they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen food in
those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to pre-frezze.
Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.


--
So I was feeding the hummingbirds but not changing the feeder sugar
water quickly enough and it fermented into something like that stuff
that Hunter S Thompson was drinking in the Rum Diary, anyway, so I had
these drunk birds flying everywhere just like mosquitoes in Minnesota,
dashing up one side of me, darting down the other, crashing into the
windows, falling off their perches, didn't even know they perched,
flying backwards, flying backwards, it was like something out of the
Exorcist. After a while though, I got bored with it all. Next Summer I'm
going to Alaska to feed french bread soaked in Wild Turkey to polar
bears. Wish me luck!

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Serendipity wrote:
>


> At the moment, I'm not really interested in vacuum sealing in jars even
> though I am hot and heavy into home preserving. There are a few of
> reasons for this. I already have all the equipment for homepreserving I
> need. Dried goods are either vacuum sealed in bags for longer term
> storage or in old fashioned mason jars for use now. The Tilia, while
> appealing, is overpriced for my needs. I do use a pressure cooker on a
> regular basis though. I likely average 2 - 3 times a week. Today, I
> made a delectable vegetable beef soup in under and hour start to finish
> :) Pressure cookers rule!
>
Until it blows up.


--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Serendipity wrote:
>


> At the moment, I'm not really interested in vacuum sealing in jars even
> though I am hot and heavy into home preserving. There are a few of
> reasons for this. I already have all the equipment for homepreserving I
> need. Dried goods are either vacuum sealed in bags for longer term
> storage or in old fashioned mason jars for use now. The Tilia, while
> appealing, is overpriced for my needs. I do use a pressure cooker on a
> regular basis though. I likely average 2 - 3 times a week. Today, I
> made a delectable vegetable beef soup in under and hour start to finish
> :) Pressure cookers rule!
>
Until it blows up.


--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

DrLith wrote:
>
> "Derald" > wrote in message
> ...
> > the only only only countertop home-use
> > vacuum-storage appliance worth having is the overpriced "Tilia
> > Foodsaver" and I can exceed the quality of its vacuum with a
> > Italian-made bicycle pump. If you have any experience with Italian
> > machinery (mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles), then you
> > know that the home vacuum-storage appliances must be a pretty sorry lot.
>
> You may be right about the quality of your vacuum device, but your
> experience with Italian automobiles may have lead you astray concerning the
> quality of your bicycle pump. Italian bicycles and components are the gold
> standard in the world of road racing.
>
I know better, I saw the Bicycle Thief.



--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

DrLith wrote:
>
> "Derald" > wrote in message
> ...
> > the only only only countertop home-use
> > vacuum-storage appliance worth having is the overpriced "Tilia
> > Foodsaver" and I can exceed the quality of its vacuum with a
> > Italian-made bicycle pump. If you have any experience with Italian
> > machinery (mine is limited to FIAT and Alfa Romeo automobiles), then you
> > know that the home vacuum-storage appliances must be a pretty sorry lot.
>
> You may be right about the quality of your vacuum device, but your
> experience with Italian automobiles may have lead you astray concerning the
> quality of your bicycle pump. Italian bicycles and components are the gold
> standard in the world of road racing.
>
I know better, I saw the Bicycle Thief.



--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

[Serendipity]

Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:

>
> Serendipity wrote:
>
>
>
>>At the moment, I'm not really interested in vacuum sealing in jars even
>>though I am hot and heavy into home preserving. There are a few of
>>reasons for this. I already have all the equipment for homepreserving I
>>need. Dried goods are either vacuum sealed in bags for longer term
>>storage or in old fashioned mason jars for use now. The Tilia, while
>>appealing, is overpriced for my needs. I do use a pressure cooker on a
>>regular basis though. I likely average 2 - 3 times a week. Today, I
>>made a delectable vegetable beef soup in under and hour start to finish
>>:) Pressure cookers rule!
>>
>
> Until it blows up.

I'm pretty sure that isn't going to happen but hen I "know" how to use a
pressure cooker ;)
>
>

[Serendipity]

Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:

>
> Serendipity wrote:
>
>
>
>>At the moment, I'm not really interested in vacuum sealing in jars even
>>though I am hot and heavy into home preserving. There are a few of
>>reasons for this. I already have all the equipment for homepreserving I
>>need. Dried goods are either vacuum sealed in bags for longer term
>>storage or in old fashioned mason jars for use now. The Tilia, while
>>appealing, is overpriced for my needs. I do use a pressure cooker on a
>>regular basis though. I likely average 2 - 3 times a week. Today, I
>>made a delectable vegetable beef soup in under and hour start to finish
>>:) Pressure cookers rule!
>>
>
> Until it blows up.

I'm pretty sure that isn't going to happen but hen I "know" how to use a
pressure cooker ;)
>
>

[Anthony Matonak]

Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:
....
> OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar bags that
> they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen food in
> those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to pre-frezze.
> Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
> together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.
....

Sublimation and reformation into ice will happen even inside a
sealed bag. This means the moisture can (and will) migrate and
ice crystals, blocks, etc. can form. This also means that things
will stick together if they are stored long enough. A little
wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.

Anthony

[Anthony Matonak]

Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:
....
> OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar bags that
> they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen food in
> those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to pre-frezze.
> Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
> together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.
....

Sublimation and reformation into ice will happen even inside a
sealed bag. This means the moisture can (and will) migrate and
ice crystals, blocks, etc. can form. This also means that things
will stick together if they are stored long enough. A little
wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.

Anthony

[Rod Speed]

Anthony Matonak > wrote in
message news:7Fvld.1429$N_5.285@trnddc03...
> Bill Bonde wrote

>> OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar bags that they
>> sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen food in
>> those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to pre-frezze.
>> Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
>> together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.

> Sublimation and reformation into ice will happen even inside a sealed bag.
> This means the moisture can (and will) migrate and ice crystals, blocks, etc.
> can form.

> This also means that things will stick together if they are stored long
> enough.

There is no 'long enough', that happens immediately.

> A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.

Or just more of the plastic bags used as spacers.

[Rod Speed]

Anthony Matonak > wrote in
message news:7Fvld.1429$N_5.285@trnddc03...
> Bill Bonde wrote

>> OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar bags that they
>> sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen food in
>> those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to pre-frezze.
>> Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
>> together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.

> Sublimation and reformation into ice will happen even inside a sealed bag.
> This means the moisture can (and will) migrate and ice crystals, blocks, etc.
> can form.

> This also means that things will stick together if they are stored long
> enough.

There is no 'long enough', that happens immediately.

> A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.

Or just more of the plastic bags used as spacers.

[PaPaPeng]

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:00:49 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
wrote:

>That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
>work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
>in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.


I think the above is the key statement. I don't keep anything in the
fridge for months.

I buy enough meat to last me no more than a month. Leaf veggies are
weekly restocks. 4 litres milk 2 weeks. Onions, carrots, ginger,
garlic probably no more than three weeks. Don't need or eat much
else. The routine described in my original post works well for me.

[PaPaPeng]

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:00:49 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
wrote:

>That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
>work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
>in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.


I think the above is the key statement. I don't keep anything in the
fridge for months.

I buy enough meat to last me no more than a month. Leaf veggies are
weekly restocks. 4 litres milk 2 weeks. Onions, carrots, ginger,
garlic probably no more than three weeks. Don't need or eat much
else. The routine described in my original post works well for me.

[PaPaPeng]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:12:19 GMT, Anthony Matonak >
wrote:

>A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.


No good. Tried that. Frozen waxed paper is brittle and tears easily.
The sublimated moisture sticks it to the frozen food like crazy glue.
You really need to wash the food with hot water to get rid of all the
paper stuck paper slivers.

[PaPaPeng]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:12:19 GMT, Anthony Matonak >
wrote:

>A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.


No good. Tried that. Frozen waxed paper is brittle and tears easily.
The sublimated moisture sticks it to the frozen food like crazy glue.
You really need to wash the food with hot water to get rid of all the
paper stuck paper slivers.

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Anthony Matonak wrote:
>
> Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:
> ...
> > OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar bags that
> > they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen food in
> > those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to pre-frezze.
> > Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
> > together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.
> ...
>
> Sublimation and reformation into ice will happen even inside a
> sealed bag. This means the moisture can (and will) migrate and
> ice crystals, blocks, etc. can form. This also means that things
> will stick together if they are stored long enough. A little
> wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.
>
But I freeze several different things in this manner, including chicken
and broccoli. This is how store bought frozen vegetables are in a bag
and they don't stick together, usually, all that much. Another type of
bag that I reuse are ones that store bought french fries come in. All
these bags are designed to prevent water vapour from migrating through
them.


--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Anthony Matonak wrote:
>
> Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:
> ...
> > OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar bags that
> > they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen food in
> > those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to pre-frezze.
> > Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
> > together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.
> ...
>
> Sublimation and reformation into ice will happen even inside a
> sealed bag. This means the moisture can (and will) migrate and
> ice crystals, blocks, etc. can form. This also means that things
> will stick together if they are stored long enough. A little
> wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.
>
But I freeze several different things in this manner, including chicken
and broccoli. This is how store bought frozen vegetables are in a bag
and they don't stick together, usually, all that much. Another type of
bag that I reuse are ones that store bought french fries come in. All
these bags are designed to prevent water vapour from migrating through
them.


--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

[PaPaPeng]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 15:38:50 -0500, "DrLith" >
wrote:

>P.S.--I also always see a lot of automatic drip coffee makers at the
>Goodwill. Does that mean they're *******?

Interesting question. I noticed the same thing too. My take on this
is that the ones at Goodwill are usually the larger capacity cofffee
makers. Most families do not drink that much coffee in a day. It
probably makes more sense to buy a new one that meets their coffee
intake. This frees up some counter space and do away with other
wasteful inconveniences inherent in the larger coffee maker - bigger
coffee grounds pack, bigger filter, stale coffee too long on the hot
plate, more to wash, etc.

Christmas is up-a-comin'. There will be lots of gifts-a-giving with
the latest household kitchen gadgets a flowin'. I always get a kick
out of visiting that used goods store and Goodwill to see what used
Christmas gifts turn up there eventually. Last year I think it was
bread makers and deep fryers. In a previous year the wok made the
honors. The bets are open for 2005.

[PaPaPeng]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 15:38:50 -0500, "DrLith" >
wrote:

>P.S.--I also always see a lot of automatic drip coffee makers at the
>Goodwill. Does that mean they're *******?

Interesting question. I noticed the same thing too. My take on this
is that the ones at Goodwill are usually the larger capacity cofffee
makers. Most families do not drink that much coffee in a day. It
probably makes more sense to buy a new one that meets their coffee
intake. This frees up some counter space and do away with other
wasteful inconveniences inherent in the larger coffee maker - bigger
coffee grounds pack, bigger filter, stale coffee too long on the hot
plate, more to wash, etc.

Christmas is up-a-comin'. There will be lots of gifts-a-giving with
the latest household kitchen gadgets a flowin'. I always get a kick
out of visiting that used goods store and Goodwill to see what used
Christmas gifts turn up there eventually. Last year I think it was
bread makers and deep fryers. In a previous year the wok made the
honors. The bets are open for 2005.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> Derald > wrote

>>> By actual test (according to Consumer Reports), the only only
>>> only commercially-available "zipper" bag that is impervious to
>>> such diffusion is genuine "Ziploc"-branded -freezer- bags.
>>> "Glad" freezer bags, "regular" zip-lock storage and sandwich
>>> bags and store brands just don not do the job. Save your money.

>> That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
>> work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
>> in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.

> I think the above is the key statement.

Nope, clearly CR wouldnt have just been talking
about storage for months. If Derald has actually
correctly stated what CR actually said, someone has
stuffed up completely on that 'save your money' claim.

> I don't keep anything in the fridge for months.

I find it convenient to buy say 10Kg packs of skinless chicken
breasts and cut that up into the sizes I use, both 1/3 sliced
for Scallopini and chunks for curry etc and put that in those
very thin plastic bags in recipe sized packs. I just defrost
those in the microwave and cook those as required.

With stuff like steak I prefer to buy what we call an uncut rump,
basically half the bum of a cow, a great big lump of meat, 10Kg
or more, and cut that up myself, mainly so I get the very thick
steaks I prefer of the size I want. I cook those frozen on the grill.

And I get quite a bit of that meat cut into thin strips
for stir frying and into cubes for currys etc as well.

> I buy enough meat to last me no more than a month.

I find food shopping too boring to do more often than I have
to. I prefer to do a mega run for the stuff that does fine in the
freezer and only do an extra micro shop for stuff like lettuce etc.

> Leaf veggies are weekly restocks.

Sure.

> 4 litres milk 2 weeks.

I use the UHT milk, that lasts for months on the shelf and
I keep that in the fridge when one is opened. Comes in 1L
cardboard boxes which never go anywhere near the freezer.

> Onions, carrots, ginger, garlic probably no more than three weeks.

I use frozen veg bought frozen for all except potatoes.

> Don't need or eat much else.

I do make my own bread in the bread machine, and have
one very thick slice frozen in the freezer for when I manage
to stuff up and dont have a fresh one handy for breakfast.

> The routine described in my original post works well for me.

Sure, I was really just commenting on the detail of how the
various packing methods used actually work physics wise.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> Derald > wrote

>>> By actual test (according to Consumer Reports), the only only
>>> only commercially-available "zipper" bag that is impervious to
>>> such diffusion is genuine "Ziploc"-branded -freezer- bags.
>>> "Glad" freezer bags, "regular" zip-lock storage and sandwich
>>> bags and store brands just don not do the job. Save your money.

>> That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
>> work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
>> in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.

> I think the above is the key statement.

Nope, clearly CR wouldnt have just been talking
about storage for months. If Derald has actually
correctly stated what CR actually said, someone has
stuffed up completely on that 'save your money' claim.

> I don't keep anything in the fridge for months.

I find it convenient to buy say 10Kg packs of skinless chicken
breasts and cut that up into the sizes I use, both 1/3 sliced
for Scallopini and chunks for curry etc and put that in those
very thin plastic bags in recipe sized packs. I just defrost
those in the microwave and cook those as required.

With stuff like steak I prefer to buy what we call an uncut rump,
basically half the bum of a cow, a great big lump of meat, 10Kg
or more, and cut that up myself, mainly so I get the very thick
steaks I prefer of the size I want. I cook those frozen on the grill.

And I get quite a bit of that meat cut into thin strips
for stir frying and into cubes for currys etc as well.

> I buy enough meat to last me no more than a month.

I find food shopping too boring to do more often than I have
to. I prefer to do a mega run for the stuff that does fine in the
freezer and only do an extra micro shop for stuff like lettuce etc.

> Leaf veggies are weekly restocks.

Sure.

> 4 litres milk 2 weeks.

I use the UHT milk, that lasts for months on the shelf and
I keep that in the fridge when one is opened. Comes in 1L
cardboard boxes which never go anywhere near the freezer.

> Onions, carrots, ginger, garlic probably no more than three weeks.

I use frozen veg bought frozen for all except potatoes.

> Don't need or eat much else.

I do make my own bread in the bread machine, and have
one very thick slice frozen in the freezer for when I manage
to stuff up and dont have a fresh one handy for breakfast.

> The routine described in my original post works well for me.

Sure, I was really just commenting on the detail of how the
various packing methods used actually work physics wise.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Anthony Matonak > wrote

>> A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.

> No good. Tried that. Frozen waxed paper is brittle and tears easily.

Plastic works fine. I used to be able to buy spacers packaged
in the same way the plastic bags are, but cant anymore. So I just
use the smallest plastic bags as spacers for say burger pattys etc.

> The sublimated moisture sticks it to the frozen food like
> crazy glue. You really need to wash the food with hot
> water to get rid of all the paper stuck paper slivers.

Yeah, hopeless. Plastic bags work fine as spacers.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Anthony Matonak > wrote

>> A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.

> No good. Tried that. Frozen waxed paper is brittle and tears easily.

Plastic works fine. I used to be able to buy spacers packaged
in the same way the plastic bags are, but cant anymore. So I just
use the smallest plastic bags as spacers for say burger pattys etc.

> The sublimated moisture sticks it to the frozen food like
> crazy glue. You really need to wash the food with hot
> water to get rid of all the paper stuck paper slivers.

Yeah, hopeless. Plastic bags work fine as spacers.

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Rod Speed wrote:
>
> PaPaPeng > wrote in message
> ...
> > Anthony Matonak > wrote
>
> >> A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.
>
> > No good. Tried that. Frozen waxed paper is brittle and tears easily.
>
> Plastic works fine. I used to be able to buy spacers packaged
> in the same way the plastic bags are, but cant anymore. So I just
> use the smallest plastic bags as spacers for say burger pattys etc.
>
> > The sublimated moisture sticks it to the frozen food like
> > crazy glue. You really need to wash the food with hot
> > water to get rid of all the paper stuck paper slivers.
>
> Yeah, hopeless. Plastic bags work fine as spacers.
>
You wouldn't have this sticking problem nearly as much as you think if
you'd just freeze the burger meat separately on cookie trays and then
transfer to the plastic freezer bags.


--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Rod Speed wrote:
>
> PaPaPeng > wrote in message
> ...
> > Anthony Matonak > wrote
>
> >> A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.
>
> > No good. Tried that. Frozen waxed paper is brittle and tears easily.
>
> Plastic works fine. I used to be able to buy spacers packaged
> in the same way the plastic bags are, but cant anymore. So I just
> use the smallest plastic bags as spacers for say burger pattys etc.
>
> > The sublimated moisture sticks it to the frozen food like
> > crazy glue. You really need to wash the food with hot
> > water to get rid of all the paper stuck paper slivers.
>
> Yeah, hopeless. Plastic bags work fine as spacers.
>
You wouldn't have this sticking problem nearly as much as you think if
you'd just freeze the burger meat separately on cookie trays and then
transfer to the plastic freezer bags.


--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

[Rod Speed]

Bill Bonde > wrote in
message ...
> Rod Speed wrote
>> PaPaPeng > wrote
>>> Anthony Matonak > wrote

>>>> A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.

>>> No good. Tried that. Frozen waxed paper is brittle and tears easily.

>> Plastic works fine. I used to be able to buy spacers packaged
>> in the same way the plastic bags are, but cant anymore. So I just
>> use the smallest plastic bags as spacers for say burger pattys etc.

>>> The sublimated moisture sticks it to the frozen food like
>>> crazy glue. You really need to wash the food with hot
>>> water to get rid of all the paper stuck paper slivers.

>> Yeah, hopeless. Plastic bags work fine as spacers.

> You wouldn't have this sticking problem nearly as much
> as you think if you'd just freeze the burger meat separately
> on cookie trays and then transfer to the plastic freezer bags.

Sure, I just find that its more convenient to put a spacer between
them and put them straight in the freezer than the double handling
your approach uses. And my approach works better freezer burn
wise too, because the spacer is wetted by the meat when you
put them on the spacers before they are frozen.

When I actually use the frozen burgers, I'm careful to only
peel the spacer off the burgers that are about to be cooked.

[Rod Speed]

Bill Bonde > wrote in
message ...
> Rod Speed wrote
>> PaPaPeng > wrote
>>> Anthony Matonak > wrote

>>>> A little wax paper between the items will keep 'em from sticking.

>>> No good. Tried that. Frozen waxed paper is brittle and tears easily.

>> Plastic works fine. I used to be able to buy spacers packaged
>> in the same way the plastic bags are, but cant anymore. So I just
>> use the smallest plastic bags as spacers for say burger pattys etc.

>>> The sublimated moisture sticks it to the frozen food like
>>> crazy glue. You really need to wash the food with hot
>>> water to get rid of all the paper stuck paper slivers.

>> Yeah, hopeless. Plastic bags work fine as spacers.

> You wouldn't have this sticking problem nearly as much
> as you think if you'd just freeze the burger meat separately
> on cookie trays and then transfer to the plastic freezer bags.

Sure, I just find that its more convenient to put a spacer between
them and put them straight in the freezer than the double handling
your approach uses. And my approach works better freezer burn
wise too, because the spacer is wetted by the meat when you
put them on the spacers before they are frozen.

When I actually use the frozen burgers, I'm careful to only
peel the spacer off the burgers that are about to be cooked.

[R.White]

(Michael Black) wrote in message >...
> Serendipity ) writes:
> > PaPaPeng wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
> >>>I was really saving money.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
> >> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
> >> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
> >> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
> >> what are keepers and what are *******.
> >>
> >
> > Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they
> > don't see them, hence they don't use them.
> >
> It has nothing to do with not seeing them. It would most definitely have
> to do with whether something is being used. If someone has to go to a lot of
> effort to use something, it's likely to not get used. And people have to
> decide what is important, ie what they leave on the counter, since
> counter space is limited.
>
> If you eat a lot of waffles, then obviously you keep the waffle iron handy.
> But if it's only something you use occasionally, then it gets left in the
> cupboard, and then it starts becoming less convenient. "Oh, I have to climb
> on the chair to get out the waffle iron, I'll have something else", which
> means the waffle iron gets used even less. Move the waffle iron, and you bump
> something that is being used more often.
>
> This is the problem with all those single use items. Look in the flyers and
> they are loaded with single use items, rice cookers, waffle irons,
> sandwich cookers, slow cookers, a whole continuum of blenders, I even saw
> a muffin maker today. Everyone of them is another purchase, everyone
> of them is more space used up in the kitchen. Each in itself is
> terribly valuable, but to the person who can make use of that value.
> For everyone else, their value is dubious. We have moved away from bying
> a few simple things, that each do a lot and do it fairly well, to a
> multiplicity of items that do one thing very well but have no use the
> rest of the time. People buy them, and then realize they don't warrant
> the space, and then have less value. People are given them, and have
> no interest in them, or no need for them.

I would agree with the exception of the slow cooker and rice cooker.
They are used almost daily in our house. They have many uses.

[R.White]

(Michael Black) wrote in message >...
> Serendipity ) writes:
> > PaPaPeng wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:49 -0500, Serendipity >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At $10.78, I wondered if
> >>>I was really saving money.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys used
> >> appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too. They always
> >> have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their shelves. Waffle
> >> makers and slow cookers too. That's as good a vote as you can get of
> >> what are keepers and what are *******.
> >>
> >
> > Perhaps that is because people tend to store some appliances where they
> > don't see them, hence they don't use them.
> >
> It has nothing to do with not seeing them. It would most definitely have
> to do with whether something is being used. If someone has to go to a lot of
> effort to use something, it's likely to not get used. And people have to
> decide what is important, ie what they leave on the counter, since
> counter space is limited.
>
> If you eat a lot of waffles, then obviously you keep the waffle iron handy.
> But if it's only something you use occasionally, then it gets left in the
> cupboard, and then it starts becoming less convenient. "Oh, I have to climb
> on the chair to get out the waffle iron, I'll have something else", which
> means the waffle iron gets used even less. Move the waffle iron, and you bump
> something that is being used more often.
>
> This is the problem with all those single use items. Look in the flyers and
> they are loaded with single use items, rice cookers, waffle irons,
> sandwich cookers, slow cookers, a whole continuum of blenders, I even saw
> a muffin maker today. Everyone of them is another purchase, everyone
> of them is more space used up in the kitchen. Each in itself is
> terribly valuable, but to the person who can make use of that value.
> For everyone else, their value is dubious. We have moved away from bying
> a few simple things, that each do a lot and do it fairly well, to a
> multiplicity of items that do one thing very well but have no use the
> rest of the time. People buy them, and then realize they don't warrant
> the space, and then have less value. People are given them, and have
> no interest in them, or no need for them.

I would agree with the exception of the slow cooker and rice cooker.
They are used almost daily in our house. They have many uses.

[Bob Ward]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:42:46 -0500, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com> wrote:

>
>Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
>because you need that many to keep one running. :)

Fix
It
Again,
Tony

[Bob Ward]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:42:46 -0500, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com> wrote:

>
>Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
>because you need that many to keep one running. :)

Fix
It
Again,
Tony

[Chuck]

"Bob Ward" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:42:46 -0500, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
> >because you need that many to keep one running. :)
>
> Fix
> It
> Again,
> Tony


Babble
On
Brainless


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.795 / Virus Database: 539 - Release Date: 11/12/2004

[Chuck]

"Bob Ward" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:42:46 -0500, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
> >because you need that many to keep one running. :)
>
> Fix
> It
> Again,
> Tony


Babble
On
Brainless


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.795 / Virus Database: 539 - Release Date: 11/12/2004

[Joe A.]

> >Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
> >because you need that many to keep one running. :)
>
> Fix
> It
> Again,
> Tony

Yup. ...Except for the fact that my name isn't Tony, that describes FIAT to
a "T".

Now... If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...

Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Joe A.]

> >Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
> >because you need that many to keep one running. :)
>
> Fix
> It
> Again,
> Tony

Yup. ...Except for the fact that my name isn't Tony, that describes FIAT to
a "T".

Now... If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...

Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[bearclaw@cruller.invalid]

In article >, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com>
wrote:

> If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...

Hey, I HAD an Opel GT (a rare one with a crank sunroof). Canary yellow
with a black racing stripe. It was a great car when it ran. Transmission
gave me the most trouble. Always got a lot of looks; nobody knew what it
was.

[bearclaw@cruller.invalid]

In article >, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com>
wrote:

> If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...

Hey, I HAD an Opel GT (a rare one with a crank sunroof). Canary yellow
with a black racing stripe. It was a great car when it ran. Transmission
gave me the most trouble. Always got a lot of looks; nobody knew what it
was.

[Victor Smith]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:35:44 GMT, PaPaPeng > wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:00:49 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
>wrote:
>
>>That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
>>work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
>>in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.
>
>
>I think the above is the key statement. I don't keep anything in the
>fridge for months.
>
>I buy enough meat to last me no more than a month. Leaf veggies are
>weekly restocks. 4 litres milk 2 weeks. Onions, carrots, ginger,
>garlic probably no more than three weeks. Don't need or eat much
>else. The routine described in my original post works well for me.

My dad keeps fish frozen - sometimes for more than a year - by filling
the ziploc bags with water after packing them about 3/4 full of fresh
fillets. He manipulates the bags a bit to expel air and get the water
all around the fish before he zips them.
Says it prevents freezer burn. Might work with some other
foods.

--Vic

[Victor Smith]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:35:44 GMT, PaPaPeng > wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:00:49 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
>wrote:
>
>>That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
>>work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
>>in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.
>
>
>I think the above is the key statement. I don't keep anything in the
>fridge for months.
>
>I buy enough meat to last me no more than a month. Leaf veggies are
>weekly restocks. 4 litres milk 2 weeks. Onions, carrots, ginger,
>garlic probably no more than three weeks. Don't need or eat much
>else. The routine described in my original post works well for me.

My dad keeps fish frozen - sometimes for more than a year - by filling
the ziploc bags with water after packing them about 3/4 full of fresh
fillets. He manipulates the bags a bit to expel air and get the water
all around the fish before he zips them.
Says it prevents freezer burn. Might work with some other
foods.

--Vic

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Serendipity > wrote

>> I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At
>> $10.78, I wondered if was really saving money.

> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys
> used appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too.
> They always have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their
> shelves. Waffle makers and slow cookers too. That's as good
> a vote as you can get of what are keepers and what are *******.

Nope. You cant separate out the two different reasons they
end up in places like that, a dud product and a gift that isnt
of any interest to the recipient, say because they dont freeze
enough to make the vacuum bag sealers worth the trouble,
or dont eat what is cooked in slow cookers much etc.

I got close to that situation myself. I inherited a 50s era
MixMaster, which I did use quite a bit as a kid, when the
parents no longer bothered to make the stuff that kids
were interested in eating etc. I didnt bother either, just
dont bother to get rid of appliances that I dont use much.

I'm rather partial to a decent fruitcake, just bought them
for decades. Couldnt find decent ones to buy anymore,
and live a less frenetic live now that the house is built etc,
so eventually got around to working out which recipes
produced the style of fruitcake I prefer. So I now use the
mixmaster quite a bit again, almost exclusively for making fruitcakes.

Still havent gone back to making what I used to make quite a
bit of as a kid, pancakes and fritters and other cake styles etc.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Serendipity > wrote

>> I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At
>> $10.78, I wondered if was really saving money.

> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys
> used appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too.
> They always have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their
> shelves. Waffle makers and slow cookers too. That's as good
> a vote as you can get of what are keepers and what are *******.

Nope. You cant separate out the two different reasons they
end up in places like that, a dud product and a gift that isnt
of any interest to the recipient, say because they dont freeze
enough to make the vacuum bag sealers worth the trouble,
or dont eat what is cooked in slow cookers much etc.

I got close to that situation myself. I inherited a 50s era
MixMaster, which I did use quite a bit as a kid, when the
parents no longer bothered to make the stuff that kids
were interested in eating etc. I didnt bother either, just
dont bother to get rid of appliances that I dont use much.

I'm rather partial to a decent fruitcake, just bought them
for decades. Couldnt find decent ones to buy anymore,
and live a less frenetic live now that the house is built etc,
so eventually got around to working out which recipes
produced the style of fruitcake I prefer. So I now use the
mixmaster quite a bit again, almost exclusively for making fruitcakes.

Still havent gone back to making what I used to make quite a
bit of as a kid, pancakes and fritters and other cake styles etc.

[Serendipity]

Victor Smith wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:35:44 GMT, PaPaPeng > wrote:
>
>
>>On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:00:49 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
>>>work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
>>>in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.
>>
>>
>>I think the above is the key statement. I don't keep anything in the
>>fridge for months.
>>
>>I buy enough meat to last me no more than a month. Leaf veggies are
>>weekly restocks. 4 litres milk 2 weeks. Onions, carrots, ginger,
>>garlic probably no more than three weeks. Don't need or eat much
>>else. The routine described in my original post works well for me.
>
>
> My dad keeps fish frozen - sometimes for more than a year - by filling
> the ziploc bags with water after packing them about 3/4 full of fresh
> fillets. He manipulates the bags a bit to expel air and get the water
> all around the fish before he zips them.
> Says it prevents freezer burn. Might work with some other
> foods.

I'm not sure about other foods but we do the same with fish here except
we pack it in water in sour cream and cottage cheese containers. It
saves the cost of the bags and recycles something that would be tossed.
IME, this method is one of the best methods for freezing fresh fish!
>
> --Vic

[Serendipity]

Victor Smith wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:35:44 GMT, PaPaPeng > wrote:
>
>
>>On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:00:49 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That is just plain wrong. I use normal plastic bags and they
>>>work fine for stuff like chicken cut into cubes before putting
>>>in the bag. Thats fine for months, no freezer burn at all.
>>
>>
>>I think the above is the key statement. I don't keep anything in the
>>fridge for months.
>>
>>I buy enough meat to last me no more than a month. Leaf veggies are
>>weekly restocks. 4 litres milk 2 weeks. Onions, carrots, ginger,
>>garlic probably no more than three weeks. Don't need or eat much
>>else. The routine described in my original post works well for me.
>
>
> My dad keeps fish frozen - sometimes for more than a year - by filling
> the ziploc bags with water after packing them about 3/4 full of fresh
> fillets. He manipulates the bags a bit to expel air and get the water
> all around the fish before he zips them.
> Says it prevents freezer burn. Might work with some other
> foods.

I'm not sure about other foods but we do the same with fish here except
we pack it in water in sour cream and cottage cheese containers. It
saves the cost of the bags and recycles something that would be tossed.
IME, this method is one of the best methods for freezing fresh fish!
>
> --Vic

[Serendipity]

Rod Speed wrote:

> PaPaPeng > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Serendipity > wrote
>
>
>>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At
>>>$10.78, I wondered if was really saving money.
>
>
>>Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys
>>used appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too.
>>They always have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their
>>shelves. Waffle makers and slow cookers too. That's as good
>>a vote as you can get of what are keepers and what are *******.
>
>
> Nope. You cant separate out the two different reasons they
> end up in places like that, a dud product and a gift that isnt
> of any interest to the recipient, say because they dont freeze
> enough to make the vacuum bag sealers worth the trouble,
> or dont eat what is cooked in slow cookers much etc.

Well, in fairness a vacuum sealer doesn't take a lot of trouble and
really very little effort. But, I get what you are saying. If the
appliance has little value to the person, they will get rid of it.
>
> I got close to that situation myself. I inherited a 50s era
> MixMaster, which I did use quite a bit as a kid, when the
> parents no longer bothered to make the stuff that kids
> were interested in eating etc. I didnt bother either, just
> dont bother to get rid of appliances that I dont use much.

I don't get rid of little used appliances either. Then, I don't buy
what I won't use and as you mention below, an unused appliance can
become a much used appliance when circumstances change.
>
> I'm rather partial to a decent fruitcake, just bought them
> for decades. Couldnt find decent ones to buy anymore,
> and live a less frenetic live now that the house is built etc,
> so eventually got around to working out which recipes
> produced the style of fruitcake I prefer. So I now use the
> mixmaster quite a bit again, almost exclusively for making fruitcakes.

Fruitcakes? Hhmmmmmmmmmm, haven't made one in a few years. Thanks for
jogging my memory. This would be a good year for it.
>
> Still havent gone back to making what I used to make quite a
> bit of as a kid, pancakes and fritters and other cake styles etc.
>
>

[Serendipity]

Rod Speed wrote:

> PaPaPeng > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Serendipity > wrote
>
>
>>>I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At
>>>$10.78, I wondered if was really saving money.
>
>
>>Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys
>>used appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too.
>>They always have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their
>>shelves. Waffle makers and slow cookers too. That's as good
>>a vote as you can get of what are keepers and what are *******.
>
>
> Nope. You cant separate out the two different reasons they
> end up in places like that, a dud product and a gift that isnt
> of any interest to the recipient, say because they dont freeze
> enough to make the vacuum bag sealers worth the trouble,
> or dont eat what is cooked in slow cookers much etc.

Well, in fairness a vacuum sealer doesn't take a lot of trouble and
really very little effort. But, I get what you are saying. If the
appliance has little value to the person, they will get rid of it.
>
> I got close to that situation myself. I inherited a 50s era
> MixMaster, which I did use quite a bit as a kid, when the
> parents no longer bothered to make the stuff that kids
> were interested in eating etc. I didnt bother either, just
> dont bother to get rid of appliances that I dont use much.

I don't get rid of little used appliances either. Then, I don't buy
what I won't use and as you mention below, an unused appliance can
become a much used appliance when circumstances change.
>
> I'm rather partial to a decent fruitcake, just bought them
> for decades. Couldnt find decent ones to buy anymore,
> and live a less frenetic live now that the house is built etc,
> so eventually got around to working out which recipes
> produced the style of fruitcake I prefer. So I now use the
> mixmaster quite a bit again, almost exclusively for making fruitcakes.

Fruitcakes? Hhmmmmmmmmmm, haven't made one in a few years. Thanks for
jogging my memory. This would be a good year for it.
>
> Still havent gone back to making what I used to make quite a
> bit of as a kid, pancakes and fritters and other cake styles etc.
>
>

[PaPaPeng]

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 05:20:16 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
wrote:

>Nope. You cant separate out the two different reasons they
>end up in places like that, a dud product and a gift that isnt
>of any interest to the recipient, say because they dont freeze
>enough to make the vacuum bag sealers worth the trouble,
>or dont eat what is cooked in slow cookers much etc.


(Michael Black) earlier gave a very good
post on the same topic. I don't think they are dud products. They do
what they claim to do. Its more that what seemed a good idea at that
time often ends up as something we don't really need and can be
nuisance to keep. Don't forget the clean-up effort after using an
appliance figures on whether it gets used often enough to keep.

By our age we should be getting rid of stuff we have little use of.
Reduce the clutter. If we ever feel tempted to buy another device
because of the hype on late night TV docu-ads or from magazine
write-ups about the next great kitchen miracle just hold off a bit and
see if they turn up in Goodwill or in those resale shops. As I said
earlier, that's as good a vote as one can get on what are keepers and
what are *******.

[PaPaPeng]

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 05:20:16 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
wrote:

>Nope. You cant separate out the two different reasons they
>end up in places like that, a dud product and a gift that isnt
>of any interest to the recipient, say because they dont freeze
>enough to make the vacuum bag sealers worth the trouble,
>or dont eat what is cooked in slow cookers much etc.


(Michael Black) earlier gave a very good
post on the same topic. I don't think they are dud products. They do
what they claim to do. Its more that what seemed a good idea at that
time often ends up as something we don't really need and can be
nuisance to keep. Don't forget the clean-up effort after using an
appliance figures on whether it gets used often enough to keep.

By our age we should be getting rid of stuff we have little use of.
Reduce the clutter. If we ever feel tempted to buy another device
because of the hype on late night TV docu-ads or from magazine
write-ups about the next great kitchen miracle just hold off a bit and
see if they turn up in Goodwill or in those resale shops. As I said
earlier, that's as good a vote as one can get on what are keepers and
what are *******.

[PaPaPeng]

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:13:34 GMT, wrote:

>In article >, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com>
>wrote:
>
>> If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...
>
>Hey, I HAD an Opel GT (a rare one with a crank sunroof). Canary yellow
>with a black racing stripe. It was a great car when it ran. Transmission
>gave me the most trouble. Always got a lot of looks; nobody knew what it
>was.

Haven't hard about those makes for years. European eh? Japanese and
Korean cars do well enough in N. America to set up production here.
But except for a few luxury Eurpoen cars the other familair names like
your Opel, Humber, Renault, FAIT etc. are absent on our roads. How do
the newer US car makes do in Europe? If they do great on the high
mileage open US-Canada roads they should do great on European roads.
Or are there some other factors involved that keep your European cars
in Europe and US cars in N. America?

[PaPaPeng]

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:13:34 GMT, wrote:

>In article >, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com>
>wrote:
>
>> If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...
>
>Hey, I HAD an Opel GT (a rare one with a crank sunroof). Canary yellow
>with a black racing stripe. It was a great car when it ran. Transmission
>gave me the most trouble. Always got a lot of looks; nobody knew what it
>was.

Haven't hard about those makes for years. European eh? Japanese and
Korean cars do well enough in N. America to set up production here.
But except for a few luxury Eurpoen cars the other familair names like
your Opel, Humber, Renault, FAIT etc. are absent on our roads. How do
the newer US car makes do in Europe? If they do great on the high
mileage open US-Canada roads they should do great on European roads.
Or are there some other factors involved that keep your European cars
in Europe and US cars in N. America?

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> PaPaPeng > wrote
>>> Serendipity > wrote

>>>> I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At
>>>> $10.78, I wondered if was really saving money.

>>> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys
>>> used appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too.
>>> They always have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their
>>> shelves. Waffle makers and slow cookers too. That's as good
>>> a vote as you can get of what are keepers and what are *******.

>> Nope. You cant separate out the two different reasons they
>> end up in places like that, a dud product and a gift that isnt
>> of any interest to the recipient, say because they dont freeze
>> enough to make the vacuum bag sealers worth the trouble,
>> or dont eat what is cooked in slow cookers much etc.

> (Michael Black)
> earlier gave a very good post on the same topic.

Maybe.

> I don't think they are dud products. They do what they claim to do.
> Its more that what seemed a good idea at that time often ends up
> as something we don't really need and can be nuisance to keep.

Or, like I said, what is a useful special purpose product for
some isnt for others, if only because the dont do much of
what the particular product is designed to do and the item
was a gift or an impulse purchase without much thought
having gone into how much you would actually use it.

You see plenty of other products that some find useful
enough to replace if they fail in that type of store too.

And at yard sales as well.

> Don't forget the clean-up effort after using an appliance
> figures on whether it gets used often enough to keep.

Not an issue with the vacuum bag sealers being discussed.

And not an issue with one of the special purpose machines
I do use at least once a week, the bread machine. I dont
even bother to clean it because the baking tin is non stick
coated, and so is the mixing paddle, and the loaf comes
out of that leaving it as clean as you started with.

There is in fact more cleaning involved with
making bread without using a bread machine.

> By our age we should be getting rid of stuff
> we have little use of. Reduce the clutter.

No thanks. Like I said, I did find a use for a
MixMaster that had gone unused for decades.

> If we ever feel tempted to buy another device because
> of the hype on late night TV docu-ads or from magazine
> write-ups about the next great kitchen miracle

I never ever buy anything on that basis. I dont even see the ads
or the mag writeups because I dont bother with the mags at all.

I got the bread machine basically because a mate of mine kept
telling me that I should get one, I kept saying 'yeah, spose I should'
but never actually did get around to looking too closely at what was
available. He eventually got sick of that and brought me a loaf from
his, straight out of the bread machine, and that was enough for me
to get off my bum and go and get one of my own.

Never regretted that. The bread its much better than I was
buying, its actually less effort to weigh the ingredients with
breadmix premix on the digital scales straight into the tin it
gets baked in than it is to walk around the corner to buy a loaf
of bread from the hot bread shop. And the saving is significant
even if you include the cost of the bread machine and the
electricity it uses with the much better bread as a real bonus.

I've never regretted the microwave oven either and dont use
the conventional oven all that much at all anymore, mainly
just for pastry like heating frozen pies and the fruitcakes.

> just hold off a bit and see if they turn
> up in Goodwill or in those resale shops.

Like I said, whether they do or not proves nothing about
whether they are useful products for your personal use or not.

> As I said earlier, that's as good a vote as one can
> get on what are keepers and what are *******.

Fraid not, for the reason I stated.

In spades with yard sales.

The most they both are useful for is getting the
appliance at a lower price if you dont mind the
hassles that are inevitable with anything second hand.

I dont bother with stuff as cheap as a bread machine,
or something I use most days like a microwave oven.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> PaPaPeng > wrote
>>> Serendipity > wrote

>>>> I had to buy a refill of vacuum sealer rolls. At
>>>> $10.78, I wondered if was really saving money.

>>> Well there is a small business in the neighborhood that buys
>>> used appliances and equipment for resale. At Goodwill too.
>>> They always have a few of these vacuum bag sealers on their
>>> shelves. Waffle makers and slow cookers too. That's as good
>>> a vote as you can get of what are keepers and what are *******.

>> Nope. You cant separate out the two different reasons they
>> end up in places like that, a dud product and a gift that isnt
>> of any interest to the recipient, say because they dont freeze
>> enough to make the vacuum bag sealers worth the trouble,
>> or dont eat what is cooked in slow cookers much etc.

> (Michael Black)
> earlier gave a very good post on the same topic.

Maybe.

> I don't think they are dud products. They do what they claim to do.
> Its more that what seemed a good idea at that time often ends up
> as something we don't really need and can be nuisance to keep.

Or, like I said, what is a useful special purpose product for
some isnt for others, if only because the dont do much of
what the particular product is designed to do and the item
was a gift or an impulse purchase without much thought
having gone into how much you would actually use it.

You see plenty of other products that some find useful
enough to replace if they fail in that type of store too.

And at yard sales as well.

> Don't forget the clean-up effort after using an appliance
> figures on whether it gets used often enough to keep.

Not an issue with the vacuum bag sealers being discussed.

And not an issue with one of the special purpose machines
I do use at least once a week, the bread machine. I dont
even bother to clean it because the baking tin is non stick
coated, and so is the mixing paddle, and the loaf comes
out of that leaving it as clean as you started with.

There is in fact more cleaning involved with
making bread without using a bread machine.

> By our age we should be getting rid of stuff
> we have little use of. Reduce the clutter.

No thanks. Like I said, I did find a use for a
MixMaster that had gone unused for decades.

> If we ever feel tempted to buy another device because
> of the hype on late night TV docu-ads or from magazine
> write-ups about the next great kitchen miracle

I never ever buy anything on that basis. I dont even see the ads
or the mag writeups because I dont bother with the mags at all.

I got the bread machine basically because a mate of mine kept
telling me that I should get one, I kept saying 'yeah, spose I should'
but never actually did get around to looking too closely at what was
available. He eventually got sick of that and brought me a loaf from
his, straight out of the bread machine, and that was enough for me
to get off my bum and go and get one of my own.

Never regretted that. The bread its much better than I was
buying, its actually less effort to weigh the ingredients with
breadmix premix on the digital scales straight into the tin it
gets baked in than it is to walk around the corner to buy a loaf
of bread from the hot bread shop. And the saving is significant
even if you include the cost of the bread machine and the
electricity it uses with the much better bread as a real bonus.

I've never regretted the microwave oven either and dont use
the conventional oven all that much at all anymore, mainly
just for pastry like heating frozen pies and the fruitcakes.

> just hold off a bit and see if they turn
> up in Goodwill or in those resale shops.

Like I said, whether they do or not proves nothing about
whether they are useful products for your personal use or not.

> As I said earlier, that's as good a vote as one can
> get on what are keepers and what are *******.

Fraid not, for the reason I stated.

In spades with yard sales.

The most they both are useful for is getting the
appliance at a lower price if you dont mind the
hassles that are inevitable with anything second hand.

I dont bother with stuff as cheap as a bread machine,
or something I use most days like a microwave oven.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> wrote
>> Joe A <joe @ yunx . com> wrote

>>> If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...

>> Hey, I HAD an Opel GT (a rare one with a crank sunroof).
>> Canary yellow with a black racing stripe. It was a great
>> car when it ran. Transmission gave me the most trouble.
>> Always got a lot of looks; nobody knew what it was.

> Haven't hard about those makes for years. European eh? Japanese
> and Korean cars do well enough in N. America to set up production here.

Thats mostly the result of protection for the car industry.

They wouldnt bother if the protection wasnt there.

> But except for a few luxury Eurpoen cars the other familair
> names like your Opel, Humber, Renault, FAIT etc. are absent
> on our roads. How do the newer US car makes do in Europe?

Just as hopeless basically.

> If they do great on the high mileage open US-Canada
> roads they should do great on European roads.

Its MUCH more complicated than that. Yank tanks as they
are often called dont do too well in europe for various reasons
like the much higher gasoline cost there and quite a few western
european countrys have rather punitive tax regimes that discourage
the type of car, with much higher rego costs for them etc.

Thats the main reason you dont see
as many large cars in france and italy.

> Or are there some other factors involved that keep your
> European cars in Europe and US cars in N. America?

Yep, the market is completely different.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> wrote
>> Joe A <joe @ yunx . com> wrote

>>> If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...

>> Hey, I HAD an Opel GT (a rare one with a crank sunroof).
>> Canary yellow with a black racing stripe. It was a great
>> car when it ran. Transmission gave me the most trouble.
>> Always got a lot of looks; nobody knew what it was.

> Haven't hard about those makes for years. European eh? Japanese
> and Korean cars do well enough in N. America to set up production here.

Thats mostly the result of protection for the car industry.

They wouldnt bother if the protection wasnt there.

> But except for a few luxury Eurpoen cars the other familair
> names like your Opel, Humber, Renault, FAIT etc. are absent
> on our roads. How do the newer US car makes do in Europe?

Just as hopeless basically.

> If they do great on the high mileage open US-Canada
> roads they should do great on European roads.

Its MUCH more complicated than that. Yank tanks as they
are often called dont do too well in europe for various reasons
like the much higher gasoline cost there and quite a few western
european countrys have rather punitive tax regimes that discourage
the type of car, with much higher rego costs for them etc.

Thats the main reason you dont see
as many large cars in france and italy.

> Or are there some other factors involved that keep your
> European cars in Europe and US cars in N. America?

Yep, the market is completely different.

[PaPaPeng]

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:18:46 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
wrote:

>The most they both are useful for is getting the
>appliance at a lower price if you dont mind the
>hassles that are inevitable with anything second hand.
>
>I dont bother with stuff as cheap as a bread machine,
>or something I use most days like a microwave oven.
>

I had made a general commentary on kitchen gadgets and it was not
meant to be specific to your choices. Whatever works for you and
that's all that matters.

I don't buy used cooking appliances as they are cheap enough to buy
new. Hygienic, looks good, matches kitchen decor. Full guarantee
return if they don't work. Haven't bought any for years except a
replacement rice cooker because I eat rice regularly. I rarely eat
bread - gluten intolerance - and therefore will never get a bread
maker.

I do have a niece who is just starting her home and what new homemaker
can resist getting "everything." She's the type who restock the
recycle stores and Goodwill. But its her money and at least all that
buying made her happy if only for a while. This is a frugal group.
Tips on how to be frugal, aka what not to spend money on, helps.

[PaPaPeng]

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:18:46 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
wrote:

>The most they both are useful for is getting the
>appliance at a lower price if you dont mind the
>hassles that are inevitable with anything second hand.
>
>I dont bother with stuff as cheap as a bread machine,
>or something I use most days like a microwave oven.
>

I had made a general commentary on kitchen gadgets and it was not
meant to be specific to your choices. Whatever works for you and
that's all that matters.

I don't buy used cooking appliances as they are cheap enough to buy
new. Hygienic, looks good, matches kitchen decor. Full guarantee
return if they don't work. Haven't bought any for years except a
replacement rice cooker because I eat rice regularly. I rarely eat
bread - gluten intolerance - and therefore will never get a bread
maker.

I do have a niece who is just starting her home and what new homemaker
can resist getting "everything." She's the type who restock the
recycle stores and Goodwill. But its her money and at least all that
buying made her happy if only for a while. This is a frugal group.
Tips on how to be frugal, aka what not to spend money on, helps.

[Serendipity]

PaPaPeng wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:18:46 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>The most they both are useful for is getting the
>>appliance at a lower price if you dont mind the
>>hassles that are inevitable with anything second hand.
>>
>>I dont bother with stuff as cheap as a bread machine,
>>or something I use most days like a microwave oven.
>>
>
>
> I had made a general commentary on kitchen gadgets and it was not
> meant to be specific to your choices. Whatever works for you and
> that's all that matters.
>
> I don't buy used cooking appliances as they are cheap enough to buy
> new. Hygienic, looks good, matches kitchen decor. Full guarantee
> return if they don't work. Haven't bought any for years except a
> replacement rice cooker because I eat rice regularly. I rarely eat
> bread - gluten intolerance - and therefore will never get a bread
> maker.

Your choice but...I bought both of my yogurt makers in mint conditions
at yard sales for a price of $3 and under. I doubt any store could
match that price. Both had instructions and original boxes. I use both
on a regular basis so they meet our needs. Used kitchen appliances can
be a real deal if you know what you are looking for.
>
> I do have a niece who is just starting her home and what new homemaker
> can resist getting "everything." She's the type who restock the
> recycle stores and Goodwill. But its her money and at least all that
> buying made her happy if only for a while. This is a frugal group.
> Tips on how to be frugal, aka what not to spend money on, helps.
>

[Serendipity]

PaPaPeng wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:18:46 +1100, "Rod Speed" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>The most they both are useful for is getting the
>>appliance at a lower price if you dont mind the
>>hassles that are inevitable with anything second hand.
>>
>>I dont bother with stuff as cheap as a bread machine,
>>or something I use most days like a microwave oven.
>>
>
>
> I had made a general commentary on kitchen gadgets and it was not
> meant to be specific to your choices. Whatever works for you and
> that's all that matters.
>
> I don't buy used cooking appliances as they are cheap enough to buy
> new. Hygienic, looks good, matches kitchen decor. Full guarantee
> return if they don't work. Haven't bought any for years except a
> replacement rice cooker because I eat rice regularly. I rarely eat
> bread - gluten intolerance - and therefore will never get a bread
> maker.

Your choice but...I bought both of my yogurt makers in mint conditions
at yard sales for a price of $3 and under. I doubt any store could
match that price. Both had instructions and original boxes. I use both
on a regular basis so they meet our needs. Used kitchen appliances can
be a real deal if you know what you are looking for.
>
> I do have a niece who is just starting her home and what new homemaker
> can resist getting "everything." She's the type who restock the
> recycle stores and Goodwill. But its her money and at least all that
> buying made her happy if only for a while. This is a frugal group.
> Tips on how to be frugal, aka what not to spend money on, helps.
>

[Joe A.]

> > If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...
>
> Hey, I HAD an Opel GT (a rare one with a crank sunroof). Canary yellow
> with a black racing stripe. It was a great car when it ran. Transmission
> gave me the most trouble. Always got a lot of looks; nobody knew what it
> was.

I had 4 at different times. One I drove a lot, one I used for parts, one I
used for more parts, and one I bought in pristine condition in 1990 for $400
and then sold for $1500 about 2 years later to raise money for my marriage
ceremony.

Not that it wasn't a good decision, but the pristine one was a real keeper.
No rust, no dents, original paint, etc.
--


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Joe A.]

> > If you want to talk unreliable, let's talk Humber or Opel GT...
>
> Hey, I HAD an Opel GT (a rare one with a crank sunroof). Canary yellow
> with a black racing stripe. It was a great car when it ran. Transmission
> gave me the most trouble. Always got a lot of looks; nobody knew what it
> was.

I had 4 at different times. One I drove a lot, one I used for parts, one I
used for more parts, and one I bought in pristine condition in 1990 for $400
and then sold for $1500 about 2 years later to raise money for my marriage
ceremony.

Not that it wasn't a good decision, but the pristine one was a real keeper.
No rust, no dents, original paint, etc.
--


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Joe A.]

> But except for a few luxury Eurpoen cars the other familair names like
> your Opel, Humber, Renault, FAIT etc. are absent on our roads. How do

Youve got to understand that many US based people don't even know what those
brands are... The worst part is I've owned at least one of each. My pride
and joy was a 1963 Humber Super Snipe. Shame I had to get rid of that one
too. Bought it for $50!
--


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Joe A.]

> But except for a few luxury Eurpoen cars the other familair names like
> your Opel, Humber, Renault, FAIT etc. are absent on our roads. How do

Youve got to understand that many US based people don't even know what those
brands are... The worst part is I've owned at least one of each. My pride
and joy was a 1963 Humber Super Snipe. Shame I had to get rid of that one
too. Bought it for $50!
--


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Rod Speed > wrote

>> The most they both are useful for is getting the
>> appliance at a lower price if you dont mind the
>> hassles that are inevitable with anything second hand.

>> I dont bother with stuff as cheap as a bread machine,
>> or something I use most days like a microwave oven.

> I had made a general commentary on kitchen gadgets

Trouble is that your purported test for what
gadgets are worthwhile is a complete dud.

You dont even know how many end up in Goodwill
etc because they are more likely to be gifts that
arent that useful for a particular gift receiver who
may not actually eat much of what its most useful for.

I actually saw that situation myself, I was given a pressure
cooker, did use it for a bit, but basically found that I dont actually
eat enough of that sort of food for it to be very useful for me.

I've still got it, just because I dont generally bother to discard
stuff I dont use much and dont bother with yard sales etc.

> and it was not meant to be specific to your choices.
> Whatever works for you and that's all that matters.

Those were actually examples that show your purported
test for what are useful appliances is a complete dud.

> I don't buy used cooking appliances as they are cheap
> enough to buy new. Hygienic, looks good, matches
> kitchen decor. Full guarantee return if they don't work.

Yeah, tho I dont even consider the decor at all.

> Haven't bought any for years except a replacement
> rice cooker because I eat rice regularly.

I do eat quite a bit of rice, mostly with currys,
but do it in the microwave instead of a rice cooker.

Little fiddly getting the proportions right and the times right,
and you do have to adjust a bit if you change the rice you use,
but its very convenient and no washing at all because I cook
it in the rectangular bowl with lid thing that I eat it out of.

> I rarely eat bread - gluten intolerance - and
> therefore will never get a bread maker.

Sure, but thats an entirely separate issue to what was being
discussed, whether them showing up in a Goodwill etc says
anything useful about how useful they are if you do eat bread much.

> I do have a niece who is just starting her home and
> what new homemaker can resist getting "everything."

I did in that situation.

> She's the type who restock the recycle stores and Goodwill.
> But its her money and at least all that buying made her happy
> if only for a while. This is a frugal group. Tips on how to be
> frugal, aka what not to spend money on, helps.

And your purported test for what is a useful special
purpose appliance is clearly a complete dud.

[Rod Speed]

PaPaPeng > wrote in message
...
> Rod Speed > wrote

>> The most they both are useful for is getting the
>> appliance at a lower price if you dont mind the
>> hassles that are inevitable with anything second hand.

>> I dont bother with stuff as cheap as a bread machine,
>> or something I use most days like a microwave oven.

> I had made a general commentary on kitchen gadgets

Trouble is that your purported test for what
gadgets are worthwhile is a complete dud.

You dont even know how many end up in Goodwill
etc because they are more likely to be gifts that
arent that useful for a particular gift receiver who
may not actually eat much of what its most useful for.

I actually saw that situation myself, I was given a pressure
cooker, did use it for a bit, but basically found that I dont actually
eat enough of that sort of food for it to be very useful for me.

I've still got it, just because I dont generally bother to discard
stuff I dont use much and dont bother with yard sales etc.

> and it was not meant to be specific to your choices.
> Whatever works for you and that's all that matters.

Those were actually examples that show your purported
test for what are useful appliances is a complete dud.

> I don't buy used cooking appliances as they are cheap
> enough to buy new. Hygienic, looks good, matches
> kitchen decor. Full guarantee return if they don't work.

Yeah, tho I dont even consider the decor at all.

> Haven't bought any for years except a replacement
> rice cooker because I eat rice regularly.

I do eat quite a bit of rice, mostly with currys,
but do it in the microwave instead of a rice cooker.

Little fiddly getting the proportions right and the times right,
and you do have to adjust a bit if you change the rice you use,
but its very convenient and no washing at all because I cook
it in the rectangular bowl with lid thing that I eat it out of.

> I rarely eat bread - gluten intolerance - and
> therefore will never get a bread maker.

Sure, but thats an entirely separate issue to what was being
discussed, whether them showing up in a Goodwill etc says
anything useful about how useful they are if you do eat bread much.

> I do have a niece who is just starting her home and
> what new homemaker can resist getting "everything."

I did in that situation.

> She's the type who restock the recycle stores and Goodwill.
> But its her money and at least all that buying made her happy
> if only for a while. This is a frugal group. Tips on how to be
> frugal, aka what not to spend money on, helps.

And your purported test for what is a useful special
purpose appliance is clearly a complete dud.

[Marcy]

Serendipity > wrote in message >...

> I have a rice cooker, sandwich cooker, slow cooker, blender, and a few
> other small appliances as in yogurt maker, breadmaker, ice cream maker,
> dehydrator, toaster, food processor, stick blender, spice grinder, and
> likely a couple I've forgotten to mention. None of them are single use
> if you know how to use them properly. Wait, maybe the yogurt maker is
> single use but it makes a dang fine yogurt without fuss or worry.

My yogurt maker is a 32 oz. spaghetti sauce jar and a heating pad.
Never had a failed batched yet!

Marcy

[Marcy]

Serendipity > wrote in message >...

> I have a rice cooker, sandwich cooker, slow cooker, blender, and a few
> other small appliances as in yogurt maker, breadmaker, ice cream maker,
> dehydrator, toaster, food processor, stick blender, spice grinder, and
> likely a couple I've forgotten to mention. None of them are single use
> if you know how to use them properly. Wait, maybe the yogurt maker is
> single use but it makes a dang fine yogurt without fuss or worry.

My yogurt maker is a 32 oz. spaghetti sauce jar and a heating pad.
Never had a failed batched yet!

Marcy

[Serendipity]

Marcy wrote:

> Serendipity > wrote in message >...
>
>
>>I have a rice cooker, sandwich cooker, slow cooker, blender, and a few
>>other small appliances as in yogurt maker, breadmaker, ice cream maker,
>>dehydrator, toaster, food processor, stick blender, spice grinder, and
>>likely a couple I've forgotten to mention. None of them are single use
>>if you know how to use them properly. Wait, maybe the yogurt maker is
>>single use but it makes a dang fine yogurt without fuss or worry.
>
>
> My yogurt maker is a 32 oz. spaghetti sauce jar and a heating pad.
> Never had a failed batched yet!

That's cool. My heating pad is used to ease aching mucsles and given
the amout of work I do in any given day, it is in wide demand ;) YMMV
>
> Marcy

[Serendipity]

Marcy wrote:

> Serendipity > wrote in message >...
>
>
>>I have a rice cooker, sandwich cooker, slow cooker, blender, and a few
>>other small appliances as in yogurt maker, breadmaker, ice cream maker,
>>dehydrator, toaster, food processor, stick blender, spice grinder, and
>>likely a couple I've forgotten to mention. None of them are single use
>>if you know how to use them properly. Wait, maybe the yogurt maker is
>>single use but it makes a dang fine yogurt without fuss or worry.
>
>
> My yogurt maker is a 32 oz. spaghetti sauce jar and a heating pad.
> Never had a failed batched yet!

That's cool. My heating pad is used to ease aching mucsles and given
the amout of work I do in any given day, it is in wide demand ;) YMMV
>
> Marcy

[Tracey]

"Chuck" > wrote in message
. com...
> Where do you get the vacuum sealers (the complete unit)? Would Wal-Mart,
> Sears, Sams type places carry them? About how much do they cost, do you
know
> off hand?

I bought my Tilia Foodsaver at Sams, IIRC, it was about $150 and included
several dozen bags, a couple rolls of bags (to make whatever size you want)
and a couple of cannisters.
I think it was well worth the cost.

[Tracey]

"Chuck" > wrote in message
. com...
> Where do you get the vacuum sealers (the complete unit)? Would Wal-Mart,
> Sears, Sams type places carry them? About how much do they cost, do you
know
> off hand?

I bought my Tilia Foodsaver at Sams, IIRC, it was about $150 and included
several dozen bags, a couple rolls of bags (to make whatever size you want)
and a couple of cannisters.
I think it was well worth the cost.

[W & S]

"Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com> wrote in message
...
>> >Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s
>> >is
>> >because you need that many to keep one running. :)
>>
>> Fix
>> It
>> Again,
>> Tony
>
> Yup. ...Except for the fact that my name isn't Tony, that describes FIAT
> to
> a "T".
>
-snip-

Say Joe, I don't suppose you have one of those X19's still around? I just
happen to have a '71 X19 out in the garage and it needs..... well it needs a
lot and a spare car for parts would come in handy!

Sue

[W & S]

"Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com> wrote in message
...
>> >Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s
>> >is
>> >because you need that many to keep one running. :)
>>
>> Fix
>> It
>> Again,
>> Tony
>
> Yup. ...Except for the fact that my name isn't Tony, that describes FIAT
> to
> a "T".
>
-snip-

Say Joe, I don't suppose you have one of those X19's still around? I just
happen to have a '71 X19 out in the garage and it needs..... well it needs a
lot and a spare car for parts would come in handy!

Sue

[Joe A.]

> Say Joe, I don't suppose you have one of those X19's still around? I just
> happen to have a '71 X19 out in the garage and it needs..... well it needs
a
> lot and a spare car for parts would come in handy!

Sue,

To basic answers to that question:

1. No. Sorry...

and

2. NO. Thank God!

I don't have time to keep up my Saturn and Camry... If I had the Fiat or
any of those other "needy" cars, |I'd be taking the motorcycle to work every
day in the 20 degree temps.... Come to think of it, I sometimes do that
anyhow.
--


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Joe A.]

> Say Joe, I don't suppose you have one of those X19's still around? I just
> happen to have a '71 X19 out in the garage and it needs..... well it needs
a
> lot and a spare car for parts would come in handy!

Sue,

To basic answers to that question:

1. No. Sorry...

and

2. NO. Thank God!

I don't have time to keep up my Saturn and Camry... If I had the Fiat or
any of those other "needy" cars, |I'd be taking the motorcycle to work every
day in the 20 degree temps.... Come to think of it, I sometimes do that
anyhow.
--


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[bearclaw@cruller.invalid]

In article >, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com>
wrote:

> > But except for a few luxury Eurpoen cars the other familair names like
> > your Opel, Humber, Renault, FAIT etc. are absent on our roads. How do
>
> Youve got to understand that many US based people don't even know what those
> brands are... The worst part is I've owned at least one of each. My pride
> and joy was a 1963 Humber Super Snipe. Shame I had to get rid of that one
> too. Bought it for $50!

Wasn't it the Fiats that had the positive battery ground? I think I blew
up a battery (literally) once trying to give a dead Spyder a jump.

[bearclaw@cruller.invalid]

In article >, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com>
wrote:

> > But except for a few luxury Eurpoen cars the other familair names like
> > your Opel, Humber, Renault, FAIT etc. are absent on our roads. How do
>
> Youve got to understand that many US based people don't even know what those
> brands are... The worst part is I've owned at least one of each. My pride
> and joy was a 1963 Humber Super Snipe. Shame I had to get rid of that one
> too. Bought it for $50!

Wasn't it the Fiats that had the positive battery ground? I think I blew
up a battery (literally) once trying to give a dead Spyder a jump.

[Bob Ward]

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:46:13 -0500, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com> wrote:

>> >Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
>> >because you need that many to keep one running. :)
>>
>> Fix
>> It
>> Again,
>> Tony
>
>Yup. ...Except for the fact that my name isn't Tony, that describes FIAT to
>a "T".
>

Tony being a reference to the stereotypical Italian mechanic, here...

[Bob Ward]

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:46:13 -0500, "Joe A." <joe @ yunx . com> wrote:

>> >Fiat... Argh. Had a spider and 3 X19s. The only reason I had 3 X19s is
>> >because you need that many to keep one running. :)
>>
>> Fix
>> It
>> Again,
>> Tony
>
>Yup. ...Except for the fact that my name isn't Tony, that describes FIAT to
>a "T".
>

Tony being a reference to the stereotypical Italian mechanic, here...

[Joe A.]

> >> Fix
> >> It
> >> Again,
> >> Tony
> >
> >Yup. ...Except for the fact that my name isn't Tony, that describes FIAT
to
> >a "T".
> >
>
> Tony being a reference to the stereotypical Italian mechanic, here...

Mine is named Rosario. :)

Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Joe A.]

> >> Fix
> >> It
> >> Again,
> >> Tony
> >
> >Yup. ...Except for the fact that my name isn't Tony, that describes FIAT
to
> >a "T".
> >
>
> Tony being a reference to the stereotypical Italian mechanic, here...

Mine is named Rosario. :)

Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Joe A.]

> Wasn't it the Fiats that had the positive battery ground? I think I blew
> up a battery (literally) once trying to give a dead Spyder a jump.

To be honest, I forget. I'm more likely to believe the British car had the
reverse polarity ground than the Fiat though as I'm sure some of the old
British 4X4 vehicles had it that way... Or were they 6v... Oy. I forget.
--


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Joe A.]

> Wasn't it the Fiats that had the positive battery ground? I think I blew
> up a battery (literally) once trying to give a dead Spyder a jump.

To be honest, I forget. I'm more likely to believe the British car had the
reverse polarity ground than the Fiat though as I'm sure some of the old
British 4X4 vehicles had it that way... Or were they 6v... Oy. I forget.
--


Joe - V#8013 - '86 VN750 - joe @ yunx .com
Northern, NJ
Ride a Motorcycle? Ask me about "The Ride"
http://www.youthelate.com/the_ride.htm

Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...

Have unwanted music CDs or DVDs of any type? I can use them for our
charity. eMail me privately for details. Donation receipts available.

[Bob]

"Marcy" > wrote in message
> My yogurt maker is a 32 oz. spaghetti sauce jar and a heating
pad.
> Never had a failed batched yet!

Mine is any container I choose and the oven with the door closed
and the light on.

Bob

[Bob]

"Marcy" > wrote in message
> My yogurt maker is a 32 oz. spaghetti sauce jar and a heating
pad.
> Never had a failed batched yet!

Mine is any container I choose and the oven with the door closed
and the light on.

Bob

[Bob]

"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
> wrote in message
> OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar
bags that
> they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen
food in
> those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to
pre-frezze.
> Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
> together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.

An additional step can eliminate freezer burn. Dip the well
frozen items in ICE water one or more times to get a good ice
layer covering the food. This works great for meat, chicken,
fish. Then stick them in freezer bags and back in the freezer.
You will get no freezer burn for months. Recoating can extend
this time.

Bob

[Bob]

"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
> wrote in message
> OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar
bags that
> they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen
food in
> those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to
pre-frezze.
> Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
> together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.

An additional step can eliminate freezer burn. Dip the well
frozen items in ICE water one or more times to get a good ice
layer covering the food. This works great for meat, chicken,
fish. Then stick them in freezer bags and back in the freezer.
You will get no freezer burn for months. Recoating can extend
this time.

Bob

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Bob wrote:
>
> "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
> > wrote in message
> > OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar
> bags that
> > they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen
> food in
> > those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to
> pre-frezze.
> > Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
> > together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.
>
> An additional step can eliminate freezer burn. Dip the well
> frozen items in ICE water one or more times to get a good ice
> layer covering the food. This works great for meat, chicken,
> fish. Then stick them in freezer bags and back in the freezer.
> You will get no freezer burn for months. Recoating can extend
> this time.
>
I have yet to need to do that but that is a reasonable idea.



--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

[Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway']

Bob wrote:
>
> "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
> > wrote in message
> > OTOH, the frugal person might just save those aluminized mylar
> bags that
> > they sell crackers and what not in, and just put the frozen
> food in
> > those. Arrange food on cookie sheets and place in freezer to
> pre-frezze.
> > Pull out and put in bag, being already frozen, they won't stick
> > together. Put back in freezer, use in a few months.
>
> An additional step can eliminate freezer burn. Dip the well
> frozen items in ICE water one or more times to get a good ice
> layer covering the food. This works great for meat, chicken,
> fish. Then stick them in freezer bags and back in the freezer.
> You will get no freezer burn for months. Recoating can extend
> this time.
>
I have yet to need to do that but that is a reasonable idea.



--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."

+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"